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BIG Nuclear Trouble - All Reactors Exploded
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VulcanB2 View Drop Down
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Points: 13365 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VulcanB2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2011 at 3:03am
Radiation at the plant is currently 882 mSv/hr. Limit is 500 mSv/hr. Normal background is 2.4 mSv/year.

Peak was yesterday (Friday) at 1242 mSv, and at 0900 was 1204 mSv.

NNK Worldwide was also reporting that in No. 1 unit approximately half of the 4 meter (13.12 ft) long fuel rods had been exposed, and are thought to have melted. They are assuming there has also been a partial meltdown in No. 3 unit. They think an actual meltdown is very likely.

No. 1 is currently suffering additional cooling problems, and No. 3 is getting hotter.

Despite No. 1 exploding earlier, they are very concerned about No. 3.

Greenpeace (???) are saying that No.3 reactor is using both uranium and plutonium fuel.

Best regards,
Vulcan.
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johnep View Drop Down
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There are videos of the explosion at Fukishima plant on utube. Sorry, have not got link, saw on another forum.
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Points: 26722 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2011 at 10:30am

Quote Had not seen that.  Source?

It was from a nuclear expert on BBC News.  
 
It was mentioned here, live a few moments ago too. In an interview with Malcolm Grimstone from imperial college London.  
 
 
 
Some interesting stuff from New Scientist...
 
 
The US are on their way with liquid coolant.
 
Quote

The US Air Force is delivering a cargo of liquid coolant to the Tokyo Electric Power Company's Fukushima-Daiichi nuclear power plant - where one of six reactors seriously affected by today's quake is still alarmingly hot many hours after it was automatically shut down when the quake struck.

 
Japanese officials are saying there's a risk of a second explosion at Fukushima.  
 

 
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Apparently, No 3 reactor was left for 3 hours with the top of the fuel rods exposed. The heat that generated, aside from likely melting the top, has generated significant amounts of hydrogen. Venting has been undertaken to reduce pressure. There's a risk that the containment building could go bang in the same way as the No 1 reactor.

There are now no personnel on-site, with everyone having been evacuated. There are also reports that there are no surveillance cameras operating within the buildings due to the loss of power/earthquake.

The updates from TEPCO remain very generic, referring to continuing cooling operations but giving no specifics.

Quote
* Unit 3: High Pressure Coolant Injection System automatically stopped. We
endeavored to restart the Reactor Core Isolation Cooling System but failed.
Also, we could not confirm the water inflow of Emergency Core Cooling
System. As such, we decided at 5.10AM, Mar 12, and we reported and/or
noticed the government agencies concerned to apply the clause 1 of the
Article 15 of the Radiation Disaster Measure at 5:58AM, Mar 13.
In order to fully secure safety, we operated the vent valve to reduce the
pressure of the reactor containment vessels (partial release of air
containing radioactive materials) and completed the procedure at 8:41AM,
Mar 13 (successfully completed at 09:20AM, Mar 13). After that, we began
injecting water containing boric acid that absorbs neutron into the reactor
by the fire pump from 09:25AM, Mar 13.
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Points: 26722 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2011 at 11:07am
Quote Is this the source of 160 people being exposed to high doses of radiation?
 
The Japanese have just said on News24, that a "handful" of the evacuees had radiation contamination on there cloths. They are carrying out medical tests to determine if there is any radioactive exposure internally. If not, they say their health will not be affected.


The second reactor they're worried about contains plutonium.
 
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  • The government has warned of a possible explosion at a second reactor building at the earthquake-damaged Fukushima 1 power station. But it says the reactor, which contains plutonium as well as uranium, should be protected by its metal casing
    •  
     
    Japanese PM is saying this is the worst disaster to befall japan since World War 11.
     
    Rightly or wrongly, I guess this is bound to reignite the nuclear debate in many countries. It's already started in Germany.
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    Slopey View Drop Down
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    Points: 8280     		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slopey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2011 at 12:38pm
    Reactor No 3 containment building again destroyed by explosion as per No 1, but the reactor vessel is intact.

    Reactor 2 fuel rods fully exposed after cooling water evaporated! Now pumping in sea water in an effort to cool the reactor.

    Not going well is it!
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    MartinW View Drop Down
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    Points: 26722     		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2011 at 3:10pm
    The US navy have moved their vessels further out to sea, after detecting radiation.
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    Magic Man View Drop Down
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    Points: 5336     		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2011 at 3:47pm
    Fukushima is a triumph for nuke power: Build more reactors now!
     
    An interesting alternative view on the Japanese nuclear plant, sort of puts things into perspective...
     
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    allardjd View Drop Down
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    Points: 4506     		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allardjd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2011 at 4:14pm
    Wow!  That ranks right up there with the biggest whitewash jobs I have ever seen or heard of.  Some of what is said is true, but full of half-truths; some of it is patently false. 
     
    This is a disaster and to characterize it as a triumph on any level is ridiculous.
     
    I would point out that there are perhaps 10,000 dead people there and about three were killed at the affected nuclear units.  None the less, nuclear things scare he bejeesus out of people.  These plants, if designed, maintained and operated correctly should be a source of succor for the Japanese people in this time - instead they are adding to the magnitude of the disaster.  Characterizing that as a triumph at any level is an insane head-in-the-sand denial of the facts.
     
    Given the similar events at multiple units, I'm lead to believe that the fault lies in the designs - the design basis eartquake level was set too low and the plants encountered something that exceeded what they were designed for.  If so, the scientific community failed to accurately assess the worst case during the design phase.
     
    This is not yet at the Chernobyl level and probably won't be, but it's a horrendously bad thing.  Portraying it othewise is shameful .
    John Allard
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    Slopey View Drop Down
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    Points: 8280     		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slopey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2011 at 4:18pm
    Gah!!!

    Forum ate my post during an edit!

    Won't type it again.

    In a nutshell - Fukushima did well with expertise and redundancy, although they were incredibly lucky the reactor vessels have not been breached (yet).

    There's still days for this to run if they can't get the reactor temps under control.

    And nuclear power is about the only option to meet population needs going forward. It's here to stay, but they need to learn lessons from this incident.
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    Slopey View Drop Down
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    Points: 8280     		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slopey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2011 at 4:27pm
    Auntie have a satellite pic of the plant here http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12733393

    The damage to the No 3 containment building looks far more extensive than No 1. No 1 is just missing the top, but 3 has damage down the sides of the building.
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    MartinW View Drop Down
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    Points: 26722     		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2011 at 5:08pm

    And nuclear power is about the only option to meet population needs going forward.

     

    Not exactly the only option. The rapid development of renewable energy technology will continue. Renewable energy will play an increasingly significant role in the future.

     

    But at present, many would argue that nuclear power, in addition to renewable energy, is required to avoid a possible energy shortfall.

     
    Having said that... the Germans are having a rethink in light of the events in Japan.
     
    German Chancellor Angela Merkel is about to announce the temporary suspension of her  plans to extend the operating lives of the countries 17 nuclear power plants. They intend to review safety standards and possibly embark on a modernisation program.
     
    Don't think they are likely to suffer a 9 magnitude earthquake and tsunami in Germany, but there you go. Wink
     
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    Marmite View Drop Down
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    Points: 1029     		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marmite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2011 at 6:09pm
    Originally posted by MartinW MartinW wrote:

    Renewable energy will play an increasingly significant role in the future.
    If there's enough room on earth for it
    While renewable energy is clean and green and all that other stuff, it does take up a lot of ground space (turbines and solar) compared to the likes of a coal/nuclear power station.
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    MartinW View Drop Down
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    It can do yes.

     

    But take a look at the oceans, they are pretty big. The latest wind turbines are now being desighned... and they float. Rather than being anchored to the sea bed, close to shore, they can be sited out to sea where the winds are much stronger.

     

    As for solar, we have plenty of unused desert around for projects like the Spanish solar tower in Andalucia. And increasingly homes are generating their own power. There are a significant number of homes in the UK now, that generate enough power to earn the owners significant sums each year, from the unused energy that contribute to the grid. It's not cost effective for everyone to build "passive" houses at the moment of course, but we are talking about the future.

     

    Flexible PV cells on a roll are soon to be made available. They are aren't quite as efficient as conventional cells, but the advantage is in terms of cost. They are cheap to manufacture and available on a roll.  

     

    Technological progress will continue. Methods of storing energy from intermittent systems like solar and wind are progressing rapidly and they will continue to do so.
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    MartinW View Drop Down
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    Points: 26722     		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2011 at 8:18pm
    The latest on the failed diesel generators is that the generators themselves were fine. They withstood the flooding from the tsunami admirably. However, the fuel tanks that fed the diesel engines weren't protected from flooding and they were washed away by the tsunami. A major over-site by the plants designers it seems.
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    Slopey View Drop Down
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    Points: 8280     		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slopey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2011 at 8:46pm
    Reports now saying that reactor 2 has lost all cooling!!! Looks like a catastrophic meltdown is going to be on the cards after all!!
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    MartinW View Drop Down
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    Points: 26722     		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2011 at 10:33pm
    If so, lets hope the outer structure contains any radiation.
     
    Apparently in the Three Mile Island accident, it wasn't until they opened it up to inspect, 5 years later, that they discovered the true nature of the incident.
     
    Guess it will be the same in Japan, they won't know exactly what happened internally for a while.
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    Slopey View Drop Down
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    Not a chance if it gets out of the reactor vessel most likely!
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    MartinW View Drop Down
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    Points: 26722     		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2011 at 10:43pm
    It will still have tons of concrete holding it back though I presume. And once it gets out I imagine it will cool rapidly.
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    Slopey View Drop Down
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    But if it hits the water filled torus/a load of water, there'll be an almighty blast - you can say goodbye to containment if it does.
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