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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 9:21am |
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Met office have warned of fresh snowfalls and ice for the UK. Thats north east Scotland Slopey.
Earliest snowfalls for 17 years.
However...
before Vulcan comes along and claims global warming is therefore not happening. Like he did last time it was cold...
This years global temperatures have been recorded as the second hottest on record, and the hottest NASA have ever recorded.
This year saw a weaker El Nino, and that fizzled out to be replaced by a La Nina cooling event.
So scientists expected this year's temperatures to be substantially lower than 1998 - but they are not. Within the bounds of statistical error, the two years are likely to be the same. We are reaching the point, where we are beyond " one record temperature after another could be a random event" and into the realms of "far more likely to be a sign of man-made warming". The long-term warming trend is 0.16C. In the last 10 years the rate decreased slightly, due to natural variation, but steadily we get hotter and hotter.
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Flightboy
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: Essex, UK Points: 7396 |
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Ah martin your almost the only person that even bothers to mention global warming nowdays but no snow or even a hint off here in essex but some by christmas to get us all in the mood seems more likley this year which is a good thing
Skepticboy |
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VulcanB2
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Points: 13365 |
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Fitting that the second hottest year should follow the coldest year, globally. If CO2 is the reason for the warmer global temperatures as claimed, why are the winters getting colder? Thermal inertia states that the winters should also be getting warmer, as the heat trapped by the CO2 and re-radiated would prevent the earth cooling as rapidly at night (if, as claimed, the energy input to the Earth has not increased, and it is as claimed, entirely CO2 that is the cause of warming; the outcome being net energy input is the same toady as it was 150 years ago, and that CO2 is simply preventing the earth from cooling as rapidly, leading to a net increase in total energy in the Earths atmosphere, slowly but surely leading to rising temperatures). It means therefore that CO2 is not causing global warming, but in fact some other mechanism, is (e.g. the Sun). Assume it is the Sun that is the cause, and there is an increase in energy input, then the energy being released back into space by the Earth must also be increasing in order to permit cooler night time temps. Are you saying that the effect of CO2 only works during the day and vanishes at night, or are you going to have to concede that there is some other, as yet unknown, phenomena at work and that you are being royally led down the garden path? The key point here is (record!) lower global winter temps. It is betraying the CO2/global warming scam. Best regards, Vulcan. |
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Magic Man
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: South Wales Points: 5336 |
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We are possibly due some later down here...
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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Ah martin your almost the only person that even bothers to mention global warming nowdays
Not true, I rarely mention it. Vulcan started a topic on global warming though.
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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Fitting that the second hottest year should follow the coldest year, globally.
If CO2 is the reason for the warmer global temperatures as claimed, why are the winters getting colder? Do you read nothing? Winters aren't getting colder, we are seeing record tempretures globally. Thermal inertia states that the winters should also be getting warmer Honestly, think my boy. There is still natural variation. For example... The overall long-term warming trend is 0.16C. In the last 10 years the rate decreased slightly, due to natural variation. That’s the trend, long term, regardless of season. This year saw a weaker El Nino, and that fizzled out to be replaced by a La Nina cooling event. So scientists expected this year's temperatures to be substantially lower than 1998 - but they are not. Within the bounds of statistical error, the two years are likely to be the same. Events like El Nino, and El Nina are responsible for considerable short-term variation. Winters in the long term, over many decades on average, will be warmer, but there is still short-term natural variation. It means therefore that CO2 is not causing global warming, but in fact some other mechanism, is (e.g. the Sun). The sun Has a profound effect on weather., especially in the Northern hemisphere. Of course it does, and there have been many occasions when graphs show a correlation between increased solar activity and temperature. However... records over decades show clear examples of temperature change that’s not accounted for by solar activity. |
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VulcanB2
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Points: 13365 |
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The part of the year called Winter??? You didn't experiencea record breaking -13 degrees C last winter? You don't remember Peru declaring a state of emergency? You don't remember -45 degrees C in Siberia? You don't recall a record breaking -26 degrees C in Scotland? Record lows in Canada (Halifax, ~ -30°C IIRC) and northern parts of the US, too?! Just going on about the warm weather is only to discuss half the picture. Best regards, Vulcan. |
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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The part of the year called Winter??? You didn't experiencea record breaking -13 degrees C last winter?
And the average global temperature for 2009 was the fifth hottest on record. While your chilly places were, err... chilly, other areas were basking in record temps...
The southern hemisphere were experiencing record high tempretures.
Hotest decade on record.
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VulcanB2
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Points: 13365 |
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The northern hemisphere were experiencing record lows. So... back to the discussion regarding CO2 not affecting Winter, which it should be doing if it was the cause of warming... Best regards, Vulcan. |
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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CO2 is affecting winter.
But so do short term events like La Nina, and La Nino and such things as solar activity, etc, etc. Obviously.
Temperature will always be up and down short term, and locally, depending on what the sun does, the ocean currents do etc, etc, but the overall, long term, average trend is a steady rise... globally. Regardless of natural variability.
From the first post...
Scientists were expecting a cooling effect as a result of natural ocean current variability, and there was a cooling influence [La Nina], but the global warming trend countered it. |
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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but it doesn't fit with trying to get everyone to reduce their oil consumption. Have you checked out the role the huge oil corporations have played over the past two decades, in sabotaging climate science yet? Not to mention funding junk science, conspiracy theorists, and generally prompting bad science. You know, the stuff you read.
Just like the tobacco industry did. The oil industry is using the same tactics. Well have you? If not why not?
Nobody wants global warming, I don't, you don't, the politicians don't, and the scientists don't, it's bad for all of us, and the measures required to combat it are painfull... Precisely why the oil industry is fighting tooth and nail to oppose the measures that affect it's livelihood.
Oil companies aren’t in business to lose money, or to protect a countries financial stability, so they oppose renewable energy and do all they can to subvert cinmate science.
Tobaco indusrty tactics...
Think-tanks take oil money and use it to fund climate deniers
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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From the 1991 "Ice Campaign" run by the coal and utility industries to the Marshall [quote]Institute's bogus "Study" of 1998 (which was designed to resemble a National Academy of Sciences document) to the recent efforts of ExxonMobil and Peabody Energy to eviscerate efforts to address the climate crisis, in tandem with the Bush White House, the fossil fuel lobby and its ideological supporters have waged a relentless campaign of deception and disinformation to confuse people about the reality of warming-driven climate change.[/quote]
And it's a pity you're one of the ones fooled Pointy. Do some research into the REAL conspiracy. Rather than falling for big oils con.
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allardjd
Moderator in Command Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: Florida - USA Points: 4506 |
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No snow here yet.
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John Allard
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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Just alligators and deadly snakes.
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Heinz57
P1 Joined: 03 Oct 2009 Location: Ilkeston Points: 740 |
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We've been promised some for the past few days, it hasn't come yet. According to the weather we could have some during the early part of next week.
The midlands has also been promised tempratures reaching -10deg C. So, sunglasses, shorts and sandshoes it is then! |
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Jazz that's not a drawer its a trash compactor. And when Uncle Phil sees this it'll be a Jazz Compactor
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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I'm in the midlands, light snow was forecast, nothing here yet though.
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VulcanB2
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Points: 13365 |
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So Big Oil are responsible for the freezing temperatures and the snow fall? Stop deflecting from the real issue that the argument for CO2 causing global warming is bogus. It is dead. Oil is running out, but for some strange reason they can't say that, so they're deflecting and saying the planet is warming (motive), we are the cause (blame), and that if we stop outputting CO2 we can stop it (the problem is controllable). Humans can't deal with things they can';t control - it leads to mass panic. Just look at the behavior of people when they said there was a fuel shortage, but sufficient supplies for the duration of the strike action. Everyone went out and bought up everything in the first two days, so instead of having fuel as normal, they created a fuel shortage! Imagine now that they're told oil is running out. There is no viable alternative to it at present, and look at what relies on oil - just about everything. I'd stop worrying about a problem that doesn't exist and start finding a way to survive in a world without oil. Best regards, Vulcan. |
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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So Big Oil are responsible for the freezing temperatures and the snow fall? No, natural climate variability is. Come on, you understood plain English, you're winding me up now.
The freezing temperatures, like last years freezing temperatures, are a local phenomenon, a short-term phenomenon, a result of natural climate variability, due to factors like ocean currents, solar activity etc, etc. How many times have we gone over this now? And you still don't understand!
Global warming is measured over decades, not this winter, and not last winter. Globally, the 2010's were hotter than the 90's, the 90's were hotter than the 80's, etc. Fact! Within those decades there will be natural, short term variability. The mega powerful oil companies have been attempting to sabotage climate science for decades. You are capable of reading and interpreting everything I typed above, so don't wind me up Pointy. Don’t ignore the links, don’t ignore the facts. Stop deflecting from the real issue that the argument for CO2 causing global warming is bogus. It is dead. Wow! Thats quite a bizarre statement isn't it, considering the enormous consensus that it's happening? And decade after decade of record high tempretures
How can providing you with the answers, real scientific answers, to all of your questions, countering every claim you make... be deflecting the argument?
Time and time again, you make the same claims, time and time again I give you the answers, you don’t counter any of my arguments, all you do is ignore them.
And now you categorically refuse to consider the role the oil companies play in discrediting climate science. How come you don't put the same effort into investigating the oil companies attempts to discredit climate science, as you do researching the garbage the denialists spout???????????? You don’t have to be a genius to understand how much the oil companies have to lose, as a result of measures to combat climate change. It’s common sense. The actions they have taken are FACT! Not pseudo science and invention like the denialists. Scepticism is good, scepticism works, scepticism is a big part of the scientific method, and scientists are sceptics. You on the other hand are a denialist! You deny, despite having your arguments countered by fact. Oil is running out, but for some strange reason they can't say that, so they're deflecting and saying the planet is warming And the above is a prime example of my point. Numerous times I have pointed out to you, how no one has ever denied we are running out of oil. It’s one of the reasons behind the logic of reducing fossil fuel use. Energy security is another. Have you not seen the numerous articles and TV documentaries on such things? However... despite the fact the politicians, and researchers all freely admit, and agree that oil is a finite resource, and we should conserve it... it doesn’t negate the veracity of MMGW. Just look at the behavior of people when they said there was a fuel shortage, Imagine now that they're told oil is running out Sorry, but that’s laughable. People are aware that oil is running out, it’s freely admitted. What planet have you been living on? How many links to such admittance would you like me to provide? Since I have been a child, they have been admitting that oil will run out. |
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Heinz57
P1 Joined: 03 Oct 2009 Location: Ilkeston Points: 740 |
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We've had some snow here at last! (Much to the hatred of pretty much everyone else in the area. Am I the only one in Ilkeston that likes it when it snows? )
We got quite alot of it over night. None at all yesterday and then I woke up today and everywhere was coverd. Its stopped snowing now, quite bright outdoors, but some clouds are developing, I'm expecting more to fall later or over night. There has been some forcased for Monday and Tuesday |
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Jazz that's not a drawer its a trash compactor. And when Uncle Phil sees this it'll be a Jazz Compactor
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twright
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: London UK Points: 3303 |
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None as yet in London but it's very cold and very overcast. Apparently Hastings on the South Coast has had snow.
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Kind regards,
Tom |
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