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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Snow!
    Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 9:21am
Met office have warned of fresh snowfalls and ice for the UK. Thats north east Scotland Slopey.
 
 
Earliest snowfalls for 17 years.
 
Quote

Icy roads will make driving hazardous in parts of the UK, say forecasters amid warnings of more snow.

Northern Ireland, west Wales and south-west England are set to be worst affected as rain, sleet and snow turns to ice.

The Met Office has issued heavy snow warnings for northern and north-east Scotland, and England's east coast.

The earliest widespread snowfall for 17 years has hit many parts of the UK and the cold spell could last two weeks.

 
 
However... Wink
 
before Vulcan comes along and claims global warming is therefore not happening. Like he did last time it was cold... Big%20smile
 
This years global temperatures have been recorded as the second hottest on record, and the hottest NASA have ever recorded.
 
This year saw a weaker El Nino, and that fizzled out to be replaced by a La Nina cooling event.

So scientists expected this year's temperatures to be substantially lower than 1998 - but they are not. Within the bounds of statistical error, the two years are likely to be the same.

We are reaching the point, where we are beyond " one record temperature after another could be a random event" and into the realms of "far more likely to be a sign of man-made warming".  
 
 
The long-term warming trend is 0.16C. In the last 10 years the rate decreased slightly, due to natural variation, but steadily we get hotter and hotter.
 
 
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Flightboy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flightboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 11:04am
Ah martin your almost the only person that even bothers to mention global warming nowdays oh how I laughed  but no snow or even a hint off here in essex but some by christmas to get us all in the mood seems more likley this year which is a good thing Tongue

Skepticboy
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VulcanB2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VulcanB2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 12:16pm
Quote This years global temperatures have been recorded as the second hottest on record

Fitting that the second hottest year should follow the coldest year, globally.

If CO2 is the reason for the warmer global temperatures as claimed, why are the winters getting colder? Thermal inertia states that the winters should also be getting warmer, as the heat trapped by the CO2 and re-radiated would prevent the earth cooling as rapidly at night (if, as claimed, the energy input to the Earth has not increased, and it is as claimed, entirely CO2 that is the cause of warming; the outcome being net energy input is the same toady as it was 150 years ago, and that CO2 is simply preventing the earth from cooling as rapidly, leading to a net increase in total energy in the Earths atmosphere, slowly but surely leading to rising temperatures).

It means therefore that CO2 is not causing global warming, but in fact some other mechanism, is (e.g. the Sun).

Assume it is the Sun that is the cause, and there is an increase in energy input, then the energy being released back into space by the Earth must also be increasing in order to permit cooler night time temps.

Are you saying that the effect of CO2 only works during the day and vanishes at night, or are you going to have to concede that there is some other, as yet unknown, phenomena at work and that you are being royally led down the garden path?

The key point here is (record!) lower global winter temps. It is betraying the CO2/global warming scam.

Best regards,
Vulcan.
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Magic Man View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 12:25pm
We are possibly due some later down here...
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 1:24pm
Ah martin your almost the only person that even bothers to mention global warming nowdays oh%20how%20I%20laughed
 
Not true, I rarely mention it. Vulcan started a topic on global warming though. Wink
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 1:41pm

Fitting that the second hottest year should follow the coldest year, globally.


Rubbish! Big%20smile 2009 was the fifth hottest on record, not at all the coldest. Where do you get this stuff from?

 

If CO2 is the reason for the warmer global temperatures as claimed, why are the winters getting colder?

 

Do you read nothing? Winters aren't getting colder, we are seeing record tempretures globally.

 

Thermal inertia states that the winters should also be getting warmer

 

Honestly, think my boy. Wink There is still natural variation. For example...

 

The overall long-term warming trend is 0.16C. In the last 10 years the rate decreased slightly, due to natural variation. That’s the trend, long term, regardless of season.

 

This year saw a weaker El Nino, and that fizzled out to be replaced by a La Nina cooling event.

So scientists expected this year's temperatures to be substantially lower than 1998 - but they are not. Within the bounds of statistical error, the two years are likely to be the same.

Events like El Nino, and El Nina are responsible for considerable short-term variation. Winters in the long term, over many decades on average, will be warmer, but there is still short-term natural variation.

It means therefore that CO2 is not causing global warming, but in fact some other mechanism, is (e.g. the Sun).

The sun Has a profound effect on weather., especially in the Northern hemisphere. Of course it does, and there have been many occasions when graphs show a correlation between increased solar activity and temperature. However... records over decades show clear examples of temperature change that’s not accounted for by solar activity.

It is now beyond any reasonable doubt, that we are responsible for a significant degree of current warming.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VulcanB2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 1:45pm
Quote Where do you get this stuff from?

The part of the year called Winter??? You didn't experiencea record breaking -13 degrees C last winter? You don't remember Peru declaring a state of emergency? You don't remember -45 degrees C in Siberia? You don't recall a record breaking -26 degrees C in Scotland? Record lows in Canada (Halifax, ~ -30°C IIRC) and northern parts of the US, too?!

Just going on about the warm weather is only to discuss half the picture.

Best regards,
Vulcan.
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 2:00pm
The part of the year called Winter??? You didn't experiencea record breaking -13 degrees C last winter?
 
And the average global temperature for 2009 was the fifth hottest on record. While your chilly places were, err... chilly, other areas were basking in record temps...
 
The southern hemisphere were experiencing record high tempretures. Wink
 

Quote AUSTRALIA will record its third warmest year on record in 2009, and the planet its fifth, according to data collected by the World Meteorological Organisation.

 
Quote GENEVA, Switzerland, December 8, 2009 (ENS) - The year 2009 is projected to rank as the fifth warmest on record since instrumental climate records began in 1850, according to a new report issued today by the World Meteorological Organization.

The global combined sea surface and land surface air temperature for the period January�October 2009 is estimated at 0.44�Celsius (1.01�Fahrenheit) above the long-term average of 14�C (57.2�F).

The decade of the 2000s was warmer than the decade spanning the 1990s, which in turn was warmer than the 1980s, the WMO said.

 
Hotest decade on record.
 
 
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VulcanB2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VulcanB2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 2:25pm
Quote The southern hemisphere were experiencing record high tempretures.

The northern hemisphere were experiencing record lows. So... back to the discussion regarding CO2 not affecting Winter, which it should be doing if it was the cause of warming...

Best regards,
Vulcan.
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 3:12pm
CO2 is affecting winter.  Big%20smile 
 
But so do short term events like La Nina, and La Nino and such things as solar activity, etc, etc. Obviously.
 
Temperature will always be up and down short term, and locally, depending on what the sun does, the ocean currents do etc, etc, but the overall, long term, average trend is a steady rise... globally. Regardless of natural variability.
 
From the first post...
 
Quote
This year saw a weaker El Nino, and that fizzled out to be replaced by a La Nina cooling event.

So scientists expected this year's temperatures to be substantially lower than 1998 - but they are not. Within the bounds of statistical error, the two years are likely to be the same.

 
Scientists were expecting a cooling effect as a result of natural ocean current variability, and there was a cooling influence [La Nina], but the global warming trend countered it.
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 3:28pm

 but it doesn't fit with trying to get everyone to reduce their oil consumption.

 

Have you checked out the role the huge oil corporations have played over the past two decades, in sabotaging climate science yet? Not to mention funding junk science, conspiracy theorists, and generally prompting bad science.

 
You know, the stuff you read. Wink

 

Just like the tobacco industry did. The oil industry is using the same tactics.

 

Well have you? If not why not? Wink
 
Nobody wants global warming, I don't, you don't, the politicians don't, and the scientists don't, it's bad for all of us, and the measures required to combat it are painfull... Precisely why the oil industry is fighting tooth and nail to oppose the measures that affect it's livelihood.
 
Oil companies aren’t in business to lose money, or to protect a countries financial stability, so they oppose renewable energy and do all they can to subvert cinmate science.
 
Quote Today’s campaigners against action on climate change are in many cases backed by the same lobbies, individuals, and organizations that sided with the tobacco industry to discredit the science linking smoking and lung cancer
 

What is amazing is that, although these attacks on science have been wrong for 30 years, they still sow doubts about established facts. The truth is that there is big money backing the climate-change deniers, whether it is companies that don’t want to pay the extra costs of regulation, or free-market ideologues opposed to any government controls.

We are witnessing a predictable process by ideologues and right-wing think tanks and publications to discredit the scientific process. Their arguments have been repeatedly disproved for 30 years – time after time – but their aggressive methods of public propaganda succeed in causing delay and confusion.

 
 
Tobaco indusrty tactics...
 
 

Think-tanks take oil money and use it to fund climate deniers

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/thinktanks-take-oil-money-and-use-it-to-fund-climate-deniers-1891747.html

Quote Free-market, anti-climate change think-tanks such as the Atlas Economic Research Foundation in the US and the International Policy Network in the UK have received grants totalling hundreds of thousands of pounds from the multinational energy company ExxonMobil
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 3:58pm
From the 1991 "Ice Campaign" run by the coal and utility industries to the Marshall [quote]Institute's bogus "Study" of 1998 (which was designed to resemble a National Academy of Sciences document) to the recent efforts of ExxonMobil and Peabody Energy to eviscerate efforts to address the climate crisis, in tandem with the Bush White House, the fossil fuel lobby and its ideological supporters have waged a relentless campaign of deception and disinformation to confuse people about the reality of warming-driven climate change.[/quote]
 

And it's a pity you're one of the ones fooled Pointy. Smile
 
Do some research into the REAL conspiracy. Rather than falling for big oils con.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allardjd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 4:00pm
No snow here yet. Wink
John Allard
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 4:04pm
Just alligators and deadly snakes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Heinz57 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 4:23pm
We've been promised some for the past few days, it hasn't come yet. According to the weather we could have some during the early part of next week.

The midlands has also been promised tempratures reaching -10deg C. So, sunglasses, shorts and sandshoes it is then! oh how I laughed
Jazz that's not a drawer its a trash compactor. And when Uncle Phil sees this it'll be a Jazz Compactor
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 6:38pm
I'm in the midlands, light snow was forecast, nothing here yet though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VulcanB2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 10:24pm
Quote Do some research into the REAL conspiracy. Rather than falling for big oils con.

So Big Oil are responsible for the freezing temperatures and the snow fall?

Stop deflecting from the real issue that the argument for CO2 causing global warming is bogus. It is dead.

Oil is running out, but for some strange reason they can't say that, so they're deflecting and saying the planet is warming (motive), we are the cause (blame), and that if we stop outputting CO2 we can stop it (the problem is controllable).

Humans can't deal with things they can';t control - it leads to mass panic. Just look at the behavior of people when they said there was a fuel shortage, but sufficient supplies for the duration of the strike action. Everyone went out and bought up everything in the first two days, so instead of having fuel as normal, they created a fuel shortage!

Imagine now that they're told oil is running out. There is no viable alternative to it at present, and look at what relies on oil - just about everything.

I'd stop worrying about a problem that doesn't exist and start finding a way to survive in a world without oil.

Best regards,
Vulcan.
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2010 at 10:06am

So Big Oil are responsible for the freezing temperatures and the snow fall?

 

No, natural climate variability is. Come on, you understood plain English, you're winding me up now. Big%20smile
 

The freezing temperatures, like last years freezing temperatures, are a local phenomenon, a short-term phenomenon, a result of natural climate variability, due to factors like ocean currents, solar activity etc, etc. Sleepy

 
How many times have we gone over this now? And you still don't understand!

 

Global warming is measured over decades, not this winter, and not last winter. Globally, the 2010's were hotter than the 90's, the 90's were hotter than the 80's, etc. Fact! Within those decades there will be natural, short term variability.

 

The mega powerful oil companies have been attempting to sabotage climate science for decades. You are capable of reading and interpreting everything I typed above, so don't wind me up Pointy. Don’t ignore the links, don’t ignore the facts.

 

Stop deflecting from the real issue that the argument for CO2 causing global warming is bogus. It is dead.

 

Wow! Thats quite a bizarre statement isn't it, considering the enormous consensus that it's happening? And decade after decade of record high tempretures
 
How can providing you with the answers, real scientific answers, to all of your questions, countering every claim you make... be deflecting the argument? Wink
 
Time and time again, you make the same claims, time and time again I give you the answers, you don’t counter any of my arguments, all you do is ignore them.

 

And now you categorically refuse to consider the role the oil companies play in discrediting climate science. How come you don't put the same effort into investigating the oil companies attempts to discredit climate science, as you do researching the garbage the denialists spout???????????? 

 

You don’t have to be a genius to understand how much the oil companies have to lose, as a result of measures to combat climate change. It’s common sense. The actions they have taken are FACT! Not pseudo science and invention like the denialists.

 

Scepticism is good, scepticism works, scepticism is a big part of the scientific method, and scientists are sceptics.

 

You on the other hand are a denialist! You deny, despite having your arguments countered by fact. Wink

 

Oil is running out, but for some strange reason they can't say that, so they're deflecting and saying the planet is warming

 

And the above is a prime example of my point.  Wink  Numerous times I have pointed out to you, how no one has ever denied we are running out of oil. It’s one of the reasons behind the logic of reducing fossil fuel use. Energy security is another. Have you not seen the numerous articles and TV documentaries on such things?

 

However... despite the fact the politicians, and researchers all freely admit, and agree that oil is a finite resource, and we should conserve it... it doesn’t negate the veracity of MMGW.

 

 

Just look at the behavior of people when they said there was a fuel shortage,

Imagine now that they're told oil is running out

 

Sorry, but that’s laughable.  Big%20smile  People are aware that oil is running out, it’s freely admitted. What planet have you been living on? How many links to such admittance would you like me to provide? Since I have been a child, they have been admitting that oil will run out.

 

As for "society going into melt down if we are told", that’s nonsense. We have been told, and society isn’t going into melt down. There is a huge difference between “you won’t have any petrol for your car for two weeks” a threat that is imminent. And “oil is gradually running out and will run out in 2-5 decades time. Human beings don’t worry about what happens way into the future... precisely why many aren’t bothering to change their habits and help combat climate change.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Heinz57 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2010 at 10:56am
We've had some snow here at last! (Much to the hatred of pretty much everyone else in the area. Am I the only one in Ilkeston that likes it when it snows? oh how I laughed)

We got quite alot of it over night. None at all yesterday and then I woke up today and everywhere was coverd. Its stopped snowing now, quite bright outdoors, but some clouds are developing, I'm expecting more to fall later or over night. There has been some forcased for Monday and Tuesday
Jazz that's not a drawer its a trash compactor. And when Uncle Phil sees this it'll be a Jazz Compactor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twright Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2010 at 10:58am
None as yet in London but it's very cold and very overcast.  Apparently Hastings on the South Coast has had snow.
Kind regards,
Tom
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