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Israel Prepares To Strike Iran

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VulcanB2 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 21 Jun 2008 at 1:07am
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7465170.stm

Quote Israel has carried out an exercise that appears to have been a rehearsal for an attack on Iran's nuclear facilities, US officials have told the New York Times.

The Israeli exercise, it seems, was designed to send a message to Tehran that Israel has the power and will to attack if it thought Iran was close to getting a nuclear weapon, the BBC's Jeremy Bowen reports.

Diplomats in Washington described the exercise as muscle-flexing, a message that Israel would be ready to take unilateral action against Iran if needed.


But they add that if Israel ever decides to strike, there will be little advance warning - just like when it targeted a suspected nuclear reactor in Syria last September and Iraq's nuclear plant in Osijek in 1981.

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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2008 at 9:55am
Sabre rattling!
 
However, I don't doubt for a second that they would attack.
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Dambuster View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dambuster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2008 at 10:54am
Attack what? Nuclear reactors or civilians? Those Israelis better be more precise... if it's a reactor, why not? But if they're going to strike populated areas and kill people who aren't very pleased with their government already, the plan will be totally useless and of course will cause disgust among many organizations. By the way, wouldn't it be a mistake to strike Iran as they may have a few nuke head missiles ready to obliterate Israel???
Retarded claims if you asked me...
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2008 at 11:29am
They would be pinpoint strikes on nuclear facilities Dambuster. Just like they have before.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allardjd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2008 at 1:13pm
At Osirik (Iraq) the first two bombs made holes in the containment wall.  The rest WENT THROUGH THE HOLES.
 
Iran doesn't have weapons yet.  The fear that they will soon is the reason most of the world is so upset about Iran's enrichment activities.  They haven't been operating thier centrifuge cascades long enough to be there yet, but in a few months....
 
Iran is playing a stalling game while the centrifuges twirl, every day getting closer to the needed amount.  The UN fiddles and may likely continute to fiddle until Tel Aviv burns.  It also takes some time to fabricate the weapon after the proper amount of fissile material is obtained, but getting the HEU is the first and most difficult step.  The rest is childs play, comparitively speaking.
 
The enrichment operation is huge and not easily hidden.  The rest reqires relatively little in the way of facilities or energy consumption so could be done very clandestinely.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VulcanB2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2008 at 1:32pm
Quote The rest WENT THROUGH THE HOLES.

Now that's precision bombing!

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Flightboy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flightboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2008 at 7:24am
Any guesses how long til they do attack? my guess 2010 Ermm you know its going to happen evetually!

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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2008 at 10:19am

Well, hate to quote Bush, but his comment when interviewed on the BBC was something like...

 

'I have no problem with any nation seeking nuclear power, but when that nation openly threatens to destroy democracy in neighboring countries I do'.

 

Not an exact quote, but something like that. You can't argue really, very understandable that the international community would be averse to a country like that having the means to construct nuclear weapons.

 

Common sense not to let them really.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dambuster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2008 at 10:55am
I wouldn't feel safe with Israel, Pakistan and India having nukes...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2008 at 11:02am
Errr... then you should be horrified at the prospect of Iran with nukes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allardjd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2008 at 3:25pm
India and Pakistan, if they ever use them, will use them on each other.   I can't see either of them "wasting" even one warhead elsewhere, as that would be one less for them to have for one another.
 
Israel will reserve hers for cases they perceive as a threat to their existance.  They've fought a number of wars without them and did not use them on Iraq when Saddam's Scuds were falling on them.  If they ever come to believe, however, that they are faced with the possibility of anihilation, I doubt they'd hesitate 15 minutes to use theirs.
 
I don't think any nation should be prevented from having nuclear POWER if they wish to, but if they begin dabbling in enrichment on the front end (Iran) or fuel reporocessing on the back end (North Korea), the prospect of a weapons program comes into the picture and that's where it begins to get frightening.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dambuster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2008 at 3:32pm
My question is: Why isn't it a problem that India, Pakistan and Israel have nukes? They all seem quite primitive to me... no more advanced than the Iranian government. I just don't like any of them having nuclear weapons that's all, cause they aren't reliable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VulcanB2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2008 at 4:07pm
Because they are using for what they're designed for - deterrent.

Iran has the will to actually use them for killing people.

There's a big difference.

Don't forget also that Iran is a dictatorship. Its people seem happy because of what they're told by state governed media etc.. but they're brutal to their population if they're even perceived to have broken the law.

If a woman gets raped - she faces jail or even the death sentence for example! Don't think Iran is a nice place for one second. I'm sure the general populace are fine - it's always the people in power that are the problem.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2008 at 5:47pm

Not forgetting that Iran funds terrorism and has made threats to destroy democracy.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allardjd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2008 at 7:18pm
A country that has them has pulled off a fiat accompli.  How are you going to get India or Pakistan or Israel to give them up?  Or Russia or China or France or Britain or North Korea or the US, for that matter.
 
The best you can do is prevent other countries from obtaining them.   That's what the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty is all about.  Even the UN can see the sense in that.
 
If you listed all the countries that have nuclear weapons in order of the likelihood that they might use them and put Iran on the list, Iran would rank right at the top.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Odai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2008 at 3:12pm
Quote If a woman gets raped - she faces jail or even the death sentence for example! Don't think Iran is a nice place for one second.
 
Honestly, that is the most ridiculous statement I've ever seen. Are you being serious?
 
 
Quote has made threats to destroy democracy
 
That's new, where did you hear that!?!?
 
I'd strongly suggest you actually do some research, rather than making non-justified comments and trying to bring them across as fact. Just type in "iran democracy" into google. Although no where near perfect, you'll be very surprised by what you see (going off what I've seen you write). I've watched interviews with Ahmadinejad, and the guy seems like an incredibly intelligent person. He has some very good perspectives on things.
 
Your media has exaggerated a lot of what you hear about him, and in general, Iran. I have no doubts that Iran will NOT go in and "obliterate" Israel (if it could). All Iran is doing is raising a very serious question, that should be taken into account. Should Israel as a state exist?
 
You immediately hear things like "Israel should be wiped off the map", and draw irrational conclusions. By the way, this is another media-fabricated bit of junk. He has never said this, he said something different (I can't remember what it was, something to do with history pages I think). If I were to tell you I believe Israel should cease to exist, how would you interpret that? Or a better example, how about if I told you Israel should be wiped off the map? Most people would think I would want not only the state to cease to exist, but it's people chucked out etc. One thing that really irritates me is how so many Israelis link the existance of Israel to their existance, it's rubbish. Israel is an artificially created state, nothing else. Ahmadinejad has repeatedly said, all he wants is the peaceful, (swift?), dismantling of the zionist government. Nothing about killing anyone.  
 
People should be willing to take Iran seriously, rather than automatically perceiving Iran as a threat. Following on from what I've said, I'm sure if you were to list what you know about Iranian politics/foreign policy etc, then I could say most of it would be junk. Most of you just don't know much about the situation, you should spend time trying to understand this, rather than (from what I can see), drawing conclusions from you see on the media. I have to say I'm ALWAYS astonished how little people know about the situation. Normally, the most people would know is what they seen on their TV screens etc.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2008 at 3:29pm

His threat to 'wipe Israel of the map' was interpreted by Ahmadinejad fans as 'wipe the Israeli regime' of the map. The true interpretation is open to question. Either way, it's a threat to Israel. You don't depose a countries government any other way but with violence. Of course there is the under handed 'fund terrorism’ way.

 

I've watched interviews with Ahmadinejad, and the guy seems like an incredibly intelligent person. He has some very good perspectives on things.

 

Strange he does such a good job of poking a stick at the west and Israel then. He may get a few Israeli bombs on his reactors. That doesn't sound intelligent to me. Having a nice friendly dialogue with the west and not enriching scary stuff would be better don’t you think?

 

You would think he would make less ambiguous speeches if he were intelligent. An intelligent man wouldn't leave them open for interpretation. After all it’s not difficult to express your self is it?

 

People should be willing to take Iran seriously, rather than automatically perceiving Iran as a threat.

 

How can we not perceive them as a threat when they insist on progressing their nuclear ambitions? While at the same time funding terrorism and making 'ambiguous [some would say] speeches, and statements that could be interpreted as threats.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2008 at 3:42pm
I actually agree with Odai to a large degree. If you look into all the stuff that goes on away from the news then in a lot of ways he is a pretty progressive and moderate president, for that region anyway and certainly an intelligent person who genuinely has the best interests of his people at heart.
But, and this is a pretty big but. He has previously made it known that he is a holocaust denier which along with the "wipe Israel off the map" comments certainly does influence how his words can be interpreted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2008 at 6:31pm
This is the nation we are taliking about...
 
Quote Iran is ruled by religious fundamentalists who recognize no secular rule of law or traditional concept of natural rights. Although Iran technically holds elections (from a slate of candidates chosen by the Ayatollah), they wield only as much power as the Ayatollah chooses to grant at the time.
 
Free speech, as such, does not exist in Iran. Human rights activists and other perceived agitators are subject to beatings, arrests, torture, and disappearance.
 
The Islamic Republic of Iran is a religious institution with no secular concept of law. Those who convert from Islam to another faith may face execution for apostasy. Religious minorities are routinely subject to widespread persecution.
 
In Iran, women can vote and run for Parliament and are not prohibited from traveling freely, but they are also subject to police beatings and torture for violating perceived social norms, are not protected from domestic violence, and are discriminated against in other subtle ways (such as inheritance law).
 
Arabs (who make up 3%) of the population), Azeris (who make up 24%), and Kurds (who make up 7%) are frequently subject to racial profiling and mass arrests at cultural functions. Although there are very few Jews in Iran, vicious antisemitism is also a serious problem.
 
Iranian police tend to respond to peaceful political demonstrations by viciously beating and arresting protesters, who are then subject to further beatings, torture, sexual assault, and denial of medical treatment in prison. Iran formally executed 94 prisoners in 2005, and many more died in prison under mysterious circumstances.
 
The way I understand it is that Ahmadinejad only wields as much power as the Ayatollah gives him.
 
Considering the sort of nation we are talking about, and the unswerving commitment to uranium enrichment, it's not surprising that Israel and the west are somewhat perturbed by Iran.
 
The bit in blue should concern Odai I would have thought.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Odai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2008 at 8:06pm
Martin, where did you get that article from? I won't comment until I know the source.
 
Also, when I called Ahmadinejad's comment on wiping Israel off the map "misinterpreted", I  was speaking literally. The media made a mess of translating that comment, it was something else. If I could find it I would post it. It would have been interpreted in a much less sinister way, I assure you.
 
Martin, I agree with you in saying some of his speeches are somewhat ambiguous. However, he has made very clear exactly what he believes is right, presumably incase people misinterpret. As I said before, he has told everyone he wants the peaceful dismantling of the state of Israel. Not many ways of interpreting that. Smile
 
If the west is supposedly concerned about Iran, why is no one voicing concern over Israel!??! It boggles the mind to think nobody cares what Israel does, whilst they're going crazy over Iran. Do you have any idea what Israel does to the Palestinian people?
 
I'd be much more afraid of Israel using nukes than Iran.
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