Students face fees of up to £9,000 |
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roachy
Chief Pilot Joined: 03 May 2008 Location: London Points: 1038 |
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When did I complain about subsidies? All I'm saying is that it should be subsidised, which contradicts the rise in tuition fees.
In almost all cases apprenticeships are for people of trades - whether this be accountancy, electrician or builder. But they're not primarily academic, meaning people with them will have different career choices: you can't become a teacher through an apprentiecehip, and you can't become gas fitter through a degree - hence they aren't necessarily suitable.
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Luke Roach
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scampy
First Officer Joined: 22 Mar 2009 Location: russia Points: 443 |
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Apprentiships are not just for manual workers. My education is a a building services engineer(design) and i have a Msc in building services engineering. I started in an apprentiship working every day and attending college then university once a week for 6 years paid for by my employer. If you came straight out of university with a masters or just a Bsc to work in this industry you would not get a job, and if you did you would be on the same money as if you started from school with no responsibility. Apprentiships are not just for manual workers they are a good way to improve your higher education find a job and earn money at the same time.
Who says you cant be a teacher ? if you have the correct qualifications theres nothing to stop you, and theres nothing to stop a teacher working as a gas fitter (with the correct qualifications). Just because you have chosen to study over a longer period, and not be a full time student is no reason to be treated like a leper. Or is it some kind of elitism 'ive come from university and im special' people who think like that will get the shock of their lives when they have to enter the workplace. |
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roachy
Chief Pilot Joined: 03 May 2008 Location: London Points: 1038 |
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It's simple - you can't become a fully fledged teacher through an apprenticeship. To teach in the UK you must have a degree. There's no arguing with it - its a government requirement. I'm not putting a spin on this or saying you can't get anywhere, I'm just stating a fact.
Similarly, you can't go to university and train to become a gas fitter. The qualifications you need are only done through an apprenticeship. When did I ever sound elitist? Also, when did I say apprenticeships are for manual workers. I said for people of trades - there's a big difference. My argument has never been that full time students are better - I was arguing that anyone wanting to do something academically worthwhile should have the chance to become a full-time student, if they wish to. With £9,000 fees this wouldn't be the case.
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Luke Roach
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scampy
First Officer Joined: 22 Mar 2009 Location: russia Points: 443 |
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I wasnt actually saying you personally were elitist but if you think the only way to do something ' academically worthwhile ' is to study at university full time then i think you just showed elitism in its finery. Theres not a big difference between tradesmen, artisans and manual workers. you work with your hands with tools you are a manual worker. If you are time served manual worker you are a tradesman. The £9000 fees will be covered by a loan, every person with a place at uni can get that loan so it doesnt stop people from going to uni, its only when you have to pay it back in later life does it become a problem. And in todays society people having huge loans is the norm. If you pay it back correctly i can see it would be good for your credit rating too. |
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roachy
Chief Pilot Joined: 03 May 2008 Location: London Points: 1038 |
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Student loans aren't part of a person's credit file because they are automatically taken out of your income - you can't choose not to pay them back. I used to work for a finance company, so I know this is the case.
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Luke Roach
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roachy
Chief Pilot Joined: 03 May 2008 Location: London Points: 1038 |
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I never said anything about university being the only way to do something academically worthwhile, in fact I never even implied it. What I said was that anyone who does want to do something academically worthwhile should have the opportunity to go to university {because this is one way of doing something academically worthwhile}.
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Luke Roach
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roachy
Chief Pilot Joined: 03 May 2008 Location: London Points: 1038 |
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Luke Roach
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roachy
Chief Pilot Joined: 03 May 2008 Location: London Points: 1038 |
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But you still went to university, did you not? What I meant was that you can't do an apprenticeship that leads onto teaching - the only way you can become a teacher is if you've studied for a degree (which in your case would be regardless of the apprentice side of your education).
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Luke Roach
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roachy
Chief Pilot Joined: 03 May 2008 Location: London Points: 1038 |
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I'd never mentioned that apprenticeships were bad, I've just been saying all along that they're a means to a different end. In your case, as you said, you have a degree (more than I have), which would of course be considered regardless of the way you got it.
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Luke Roach
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VulcanB2
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Points: 13365 |
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Zenith:
When it comes to education, it should be free to all regardless. If the people are not educated, progress can't be made. It suits the politicians however - they want obedient sheep to follow them unquestionably, and an uneducated population is easier to control (if you want proof look at history). "How fortunate for leaders that men do not think." - Adolf Hitler. Best regards, Vulcan. |
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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When it comes to education, it should be free to all regardless.
Idealistic, but I agree Pointy.
As for the rest... It may have applied to Hitler's fascist dictatorship, but to tar a democratically elected government with the same brush, is a bit bizarre.
The current governments policy in regard to education is flawed, but i think we can be safe in the knowledge that they actually aren't attempting to render the population of the UK uneducated, so they can turn us into automatons.
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roachy
Chief Pilot Joined: 03 May 2008 Location: London Points: 1038 |
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I don't quite agree with that point, although it obviously suits the politicians to dump on the most vulnerable and less educated, because they don't have the resources or ability to challenge it.
The way I see it, this government needed to save money and have tried to do it the easy way - by keeping the rich rich, and in effect putting a tax on success.
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Luke Roach
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11829102
There were 3,000 marchers in Manchester and similar numbers in Liverpool and Brighton and an estimated 2,000 at a protest in Bristol. Clegg says... he will defend the governments policy despite the fact it's not the one he campaigned for. And urges students to call of the marches.
I say... get lost Clegg!
Police lines hold back student tuition fee protesters
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