World Cup: Germany v England - Sunday |
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hurricanemk1c 
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Joined: 04 Apr 2008 Location: Portlaoise, ROI Points: 441 |
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 Posted: 27 Jun 2010 at 4:57pm |
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4-1 to Germany at last look.
Replay techonolgy would have shown Thierry Henry's handball goal in the Ireland - France qualifier.
Back to topic - England are on the way home. What will they fly back in? VS A346?
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CaptCosslett
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Joined: 20 Feb 2009 Location: Bishop Auckland Points: 1185 |
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Posted: 27 Jun 2010 at 5:05pm |
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MartinW
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Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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Posted: 27 Jun 2010 at 5:22pm |
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Appalling!
In all the years I have watched international football, I have never witnessed such an awful performance.
Kids at junior school defend better than that. As Hanson said, ''you will have never seen defending as bad as that at this level, and you probably won't again''.
It was embarrassing. God knows what's wrong with them or the set up, it was worse than against Algeria. Totally amateurish.
And why the hell did he put Hesky on when we needed goals.
 Exactly, why can't they review decisions like that it would take seconds. Argggggggg It seems everyone wants it expert the idiot in charge of FIFA. |
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mike H
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Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: Fltpath Manston Points: 672 |
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Posted: 27 Jun 2010 at 5:59pm |
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O M G and I gave up watching F1 for that poor level of playing and miss management.
 I feel sorry for our goal keeper he must of felt like giving up at times, due to the lack of back up from our defenders.
Our sec
nd gal well I wn't even g there. Thank God I recorded the the F1.
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In my eyes to Fly is more than Just Loving it.
It is a Passion we can all now Share within Flight Sim. When in Doubt, Always go Around. Regards mike H |
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Magic Man
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Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: South Wales Points: 5336 |
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Posted: 27 Jun 2010 at 5:59pm |
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Ahem.... so, RAS and Flightboy, still see no reason to have video decisions or are you happy with the result because you'd prefer the controversy...?
Think that highlights the point exactly...
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CaptCosslett
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Posted: 27 Jun 2010 at 6:04pm |
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Well at least the team can look forward to coming back to their mansions, the RangeRover, the Aston Martin, wag, etc.
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Posted: 27 Jun 2010 at 6:51pm |
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"Ahem.... so, RAS and Flightboy, still see no reason to have video decisions or are you happy with the result because you'd prefer the controversy"
"Think that highlights the point exactly"
Could not agree more magic, its not just about world cup games, in the league bad decisions are made that cost clubs there place in the league, hence millions in revenue.
Why is that idiot Blatter still in charge anyway, the man is so out of touch .
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767nutter
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Joined: 09 Jul 2008 Location: Norfolk, UK Points: 1330 |
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Posted: 27 Jun 2010 at 7:24pm |
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As i said before martin, Upson and Johnson were apalling, they seemed to never to be in the right place, there defensive positions, and what was with all the bad passing, at one point they passed from one side of the field near our own goal right across 4 german players with a open defence. Though on another point, if we had been given the 4th goal, i think it could have turned out different, we would have come out 2nd half with more determination and positive views.
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MartinW
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Posted: 28 Jun 2010 at 8:26am |
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Well, I think most were wanting, and expecting, a steady improvement in performance each game. Building on the degree of improvement we saw in the previous game.
When I can say, in that in all the years of been watching England play, I have never seen such an inept performance in defence, something must be fundamentally wrong, surely.
I find myself taking the point Ras made more seriously, in that we don't play together enough. Although perhaps only a degree to blame, it may be may factors all working in synchrony. But then we've had that issues for decades, and not been this bad.
Maybe premiership fatigue is an issue?
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MartinW
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Posted: 28 Jun 2010 at 8:29am |
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 But i know how ras will answer, he did say he was in favour of goal line technology.  Flighboy on the other hand can huddle in the corner gazing down at the floor with a red face.
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Rich
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Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: Planet Earth Points: 8543 |
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Posted: 28 Jun 2010 at 8:58am |
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Ahem, perhaps re-read my posts ;-) Fairly embarrassed about yesterdays performance. Even if the goal was given we wouldn't have gone on to win that. We certainly didn't deserve to go in at half-time with the scores level. In my mind, its a combination of factors. The team not playing together enough. Key players not performing. Rooney was awful for the entire tournament, so bad that in hindsight he shouldn't have played if we knew what we knew now. Terry is a shadow of the awesome, unbeatable defender he was 2 years ago. Lennon was terrible, Barry couldn't win or keep the ball as he wasn't anywhere near fit, Johnson was a liability who was always on the verge of being sent-off. I don't think it could help that Capello can hardly speak a word of English. Watching him in interviews trying to get a simple point across in response to a question makes me wonder how laboured and dis-jointed he is in the dressing room. Wonder how the England players will be treated by the crowds during next years Premiership season. Probably not much better than Beckham got a few years back! |
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MartinW
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Posted: 28 Jun 2010 at 9:45am |
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So why were key players not preforming? Rooney not fully recovered for his ankle injury? Injuries perhaps, but does that account for tactical naivety?
I don't think it could help that Capello can hardly speak a word of English.
That occurred to me too. I presume he has the handicap of having to communicate with the players via a translator a lot of the time. You can hardly get your point across with clarity that way.
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Flightboy
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Posted: 28 Jun 2010 at 12:20pm |
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He did start to take english lessons but gave up then just before the world cup started, he didnt seem to have learned alot!
 i doubt he will be around long enouth to start them up again. England are just not a great football team going back along way, even the "glory" of Euro 96 was hardly anything to shout about. The players didnt look like they were enjoying playing in a worlds biggest football competition and i think thats pretty tellingFlightboy |
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Posted: 28 Jun 2010 at 12:43pm |
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I'm sure Vulcan will say it was all a conspiracy, maybe the Italians and Germans got to gether and wanted revenge for El Alamein
I think the only thing golden about this " Golden generation" is there tacky bathroom fixtures.
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MartinW
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Posted: 28 Jun 2010 at 2:39pm |
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 They slipped something in the solitary bear Capello allowed them.
There's conspiracy everywhere you turn these days. Capelo is really a Cardasian spy by the way. [Not a kim Kardashian type Kardashian, I said Cardasian.]
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Voice of Reason
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Posted: 28 Jun 2010 at 5:08pm |
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Could resist getting involved in your debate, no longer.
RAS knows my views, as we've discused previously, so he can switch off of course.
Agree it's a changing world and the sport(business) has changed a hell of a lot and now the decisions are costing clubs/countries millions of pounds. But for me we shouldn't bow to that, this great sport should be left alone. It doesn't need technological advances. They work in other sports due to the natural breaks and then decisions are clear-cut after a few seconds of viewing the incident. I say they work, the chaiman of the ICC has been quoted numerous times and many people at the top of the sport still rue the day technology was introduced to cricket.
"I think they should use it but only for goal-line technolochy" is the general consensus. Yeah right I can see that happening. Not! Picture this scenario in a WC game - a goal is given after reviewing video evidence that shows a ball has crossed the line. Down the other end and with seconds left, a player is fouled just inside the box but the ref gives it outside and the resulting free-kick comes to nothing. Imagine the uproar. Or if a foul is committed for a penalty but the ref doesn't see it, but afterwards, as is the way nowadays, the incident is shown again and again and conclusive evidence shows it was a penalty. The team who have lost out will be crying for justice.
It'll then be a matter of time before VT will be introduced for that part of the game. Before we know it, it's going to be widespread. The game will be gone for good, you'll be watching another sport.
I reckon that's the choice - introduce it (and have a game with a few more correct decisions, although not 100% as majority of decisions are subjective) but endure a different sport, that will certainly last longer too and still have contentious points to debate afterwards. Peeps think using VT will eradicate injusticies. It won't be the case, not a chance! Or we choose, what I still believe is the right path and leave as is. Take the rough with the smooth, it's not a game of perfect. Things and decisions go against or for you all over the pitch, that's part of this great game.
And please don't come up with the tennis method of 3 or so appeals per team throughout a game. That's simply fraught with issues and anyone advocating the system won't have thought it through fully.
On England and our inglorious exit, well what's left to say. We get so caught up discussing tactics, systems, managers, fitness regimes etc we forget the basic fact that the players aren't up to it. Some are excellent players in their own right but there are players at the WC who you'll not have heard of and will never hear of again who nonchalantly passed their way round the England team. They have the natural ability that our current players lack. We have several other attributes that quite often see us progress further than I often think we will, but whenever these facets such as meticulous planning, strength, organisation, bulldog spirit, fairly antiquated style of playing fails us, we're left with little or nothing in reserve due to the lack of natural talent.
Not keen on the talk of the manager. I think his role is over-hyped but for what it's worth I'd feel more comfortable with an English manager in charge and probably Harry would get my vote. No guarantees at all, I just feel the players would be more at ease with him and he does tend to want play the game in the right way.
I reckon with the way the game gets over-debated in the country as though there's a definite way of achieving success with all the right ingredients we'll always struggle. Truth is it's all fairly simple and the players and teams that require the least coaching will be the most succesful. The likes of Messi, Inniesta, Forlan could have taken a month off before the World Cup and it wouldn't have effected their performances. They're just very good footballers who the game comes natural to them. They don't need to fit into a certain system or be following strict orders to fulfill their potential, they play the game as it coems to them and often this is enough to get the better of their opposition.
All pretty painful to say but having followed England for years and twice travelling to major tournaments to witness it, we do need to develop a sense of realism rather than follow what the media and the likes of the Sky Sports pundits have to tell us pre-tournament.
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Magic Man
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Posted: 28 Jun 2010 at 5:34pm |
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Really fail to see what the issue is. All it needs is a quick review of the same replays every else gets to see by another ref. Requirements for such decisions happen so infrequent I'm sure the mighty game can cope with the couple of minutes required to do so. There are players throwing themselves to the floor and rolling around in agony because someone brushed past them all the time, adding up to several minutes required addon time so I'm sure the odd stop for a decisive moment is okay.
I did, you are against decisions based on video replays since you would be deprived of the controversy they result in.
Well, you have another iconic image to add to your list now, it can go along with the Thiery Henry handball goal from not too long ago as well - I'm sure the Irish much prefered the controversy that caused as well rather than a chance to go through...
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MartinW
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Posted: 28 Jun 2010 at 5:53pm |
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a goal is given after reviewing video evidence that shows a ball has crossed the line.
There is no video evidence. All we are talking about is simple magnetic field technology, that detects a ball crossing the line. sensors are incorpoated in the ball. It's not rocket science.
we forget the basic fact that the players aren't up to it
Err... Algeria, Slovenia and the USA. Come on, if we aren't up to beating them, then the international football I have watched since the 1966 world cup has been an illusion.
We may not have players that could match a top Brazilian but we should beat the teams above. We're actually discussing the dire performance against mediocre teams. And the Germans, we've beaten far beter German teams than this one before.
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Voice of Reason
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Just Flight Staff Joined: 01 Apr 2008 Points: 603 |
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Posted: 28 Jun 2010 at 6:34pm |
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We did actually beat Slovenia and didn't get beat by USA and Nigeria.
Probably our level for now.
Of course we should beat them or at least that's the perception but time and time again we fail to so we should start looking at facts and not just what we want or are told should happen.
The players in those teams do possess more natural ability, but our overall game and planning, strength, fitness etc does usually outdo them. When that all fails for us though we're left wanting I'm afraid. How many times have we played friendlies or qualifiers and seen teams pass us off the park. We prevail normally due to attitude, fitness levels with admittedly a sprinkling of decent players.
Ok, call it just magnetic field technology for now, but it'd be the start of a very slippery slope in my opinion. If it was a guarantee that's all that would be introduced then maybe but there's not a cat in hells chance of that happening is there.
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Rich
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Posted: 29 Jun 2010 at 9:33am |
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Another point about video referees that I don't like is the statement it makes about referees.
This technology is only going to be able to be used in the top half of professional football. Referees at grass-roots level already have a tough enough time getting any respect as it is. By using video replays you are saying that the referee is indeed a... and is so incapable of making the correct decisions that the pro's have to use replays. Any credibility ameture refs might have had would be out of the window. Football is a game played by human beings and human beings make mistakes. Goalkeepers let silly goals in, strikers miss open goals and referees miss incidents during the game. Just the way it is. And once more for magic man...
Video replays and goal-line technology are two separate issues. Only one involves the use of video replays (the clues in the name). |
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MartinW wrote: