Looking for an i7 Rig |
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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Yes, absolutely, an inappropriately conceited attitude indeed, and the irrelevance you posted above is not worth answering. Comments like...
''Of course it's relevant. Many components are passively cooled in a system, and rely on a cool sys temp''
When Ive already told you my enclosure temperatures are very low. And your overclocking point, is a mute point, you already know my system is capable of overclocking to 4.2GHz totally stable without issues... on air.
As usual when you're in trouble, you take the other posters comments out of context, and reply with irrelevance.
There won't be a single individual on this forum, who regards any of your comments above as reasonable.
Show me one single example of a malfunctioning motherboard due to the Noctua NH-D14's weight.
As magic man rightly implied... Noctua aren't morons that have, on a whim, without testing, designed a cooler that destroys motherboards.
Now lets get back to helping Matt, rather than an infomercial for water cooling.
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Matt N
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: Hertfordshire Points: 2287 |
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I was up late last night, looking for watercooling 'Kits'. Something thats not all-in-one, and sealed, like the H50-1. But more like a normal water cooling setup, just packaged together, so you know you have the correct fittings.
Anyway, I came across these setups;
The first is £90, the second is £140. Its depending on how much I spend on my build. If I have enough left over I might go for one of them. Will have to look through a few reviews first, they might be a load of rubbish, but I've seen the name XSPC being praised in a few forums.
At the moment I'm considering all cooling options. Well, Noctua NH-D14, Corsair H50-1 and a custom water kit.
Matt.
EDIT:
Just Froogled it and Scan have the 750 for £130.
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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Not come across those WC kits before Matt, not sure how good they are considering the price.
A quality water cooling kit is obviously the top option, don't know much about those kits though.
Any links to reviews?
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Matt N
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: Hertfordshire Points: 2287 |
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That's what I'm worried about. No point spending out another £70 if its no better than the leading air cooler.
I found some reviews of the seperate parts, CPU Block, Rad and Pump/Reservoir.
CPU Block;
Radiator;
Pump;
All three seem to perform well in those reviews.
Matt.
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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The radiators may not be that big in those cheap kits, not that I'm a WC expert.
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Odai
Chief Pilot Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Location: NW England Points: 3731 |
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Is that what you call it when somebody is right? I was only correcting your statements.
I was simply being cheeky in response to a cheek from Martin... I guess light hearted-ness is dead on this forum. I think you two need to take things a little less seriously.
Stress... not strain, you can't apply strain. It's something that happens as a result of stress.
And no, the amount of stress on the PCB from WC is nothing, not even close, compared to these big-as-a-house heatsinks. The block+fittings probably weighs 100g or less (with liquid...). And you route the tubing so as to create as little torque as possible, not that you need to with rotary fittings which are becoming more and more popular.
No it isn't and no I don't - which is why I don't trust these sinks. I don't know enough about the structural properties of PCB's (not all of which are the same) to be able to be comfortable with using such massively heavy heatsinks and putting that much stress on them.
Because you can't answer them, chicken.
No, it's not a moot point. The offically reccommended temperatures go right out the window when you overclock. How many i7's at 5+GHz have you seen stable within Intel's temperature range? Same applies with sys temperatures (it's probably better to say case temp, as "SYS" refers to different sensors with different products). I know, because I've been much further than you with my overclocking. As my water cooling means I have no shortage of cooling power available for my CPU, I can see the effects case air temperature has on stability for passively cooled components. For example, up to about 4.5GHz, everything is fine. However, if I go above that, even with cooler CPU temps, I get instability. If I slap the option fan onto the motherboard power module heatsink, the system is stable again, without any change in voltage.
Same goes for memory. Also, the CPU air cooler doesn't just increase temperatures, it interferes with the airflow through the case.
You might say that this is irrelevant because if Matt goes with air cooling then it means he won't get that far with his OC. But anyone with a basic understanding of statistics would know otherwise. It's the same reason I remind people not to expect certain overclocks with certain parts/coolers just because other people have got there.
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ʎɐqǝ uo pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ı ǝɯıʇ ʇsɐן ǝɥʇ sı sıɥʇ
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Odai
Chief Pilot Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Location: NW England Points: 3731 |
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In short, I wouldn't reccommend these kinds of kits. You're much better off just getting the parts seperately - as some of the parts in the kit are not all that good. For example, the reservoir is entirely acrylic. Whilst it meets all the required standards, there have still been rare examples of leaks after long periods of time - so going with acetal would be a much better option. Some reservoirs, like the one I have, use acrylic for most of the reservoir and just use acetal for the bits where fittings screw in etc - which is fine.
I can reccommend a list of parts, but what you need depends on a lot of factors. What is the max you are willing to spend? When I built my system, I didn't skimp on any of the parts, and ended up paying a lot. But it's still possible to get a quality loop without paying too much. Also, does the system have to be entirely internal? Or will you have things like a reservoir/radiator being fixed to the outside of your case? Also, do you want your system to be optimised for silence, or cooling?
It depends on the make of the radiator, and the fans used, but it's definitely possible to get excellent performance out of a dual radiator when cooling just an i7.
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ʎɐqǝ uo pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ı ǝɯıʇ ʇsɐן ǝɥʇ sı sıɥʇ
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Matt N
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: Hertfordshire Points: 2287 |
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Odai, the maximum I'd want to spend is £140, £100 would be nicer though. I don't mind whether the radiator/reservior is internal or external, and the noise isn't an issue, so optimised for cooling. See what you can come up with.
Matt.
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Odai
Chief Pilot Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Location: NW England Points: 3731 |
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I'll take a look for you tonight.
It might be a bit cheaper to go with a quieter kit though, as you can go with thinner/low fins per inch radiators (like the classic XSPC one) and quieter fans which are less expensive.
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ʎɐqǝ uo pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ı ǝɯıʇ ʇsɐן ǝɥʇ sı sıɥʇ
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Odai
Chief Pilot Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Location: NW England Points: 3731 |
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If the reservoir is external by the way, the pump will have to be too, as it has to be below the reservoir (so water is flowing right into it). It shouldn't be a problem, all I did to mount them was push a couple of screws through one of the many vent hole type things on the back of the case, and use a nut on the other side.
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ʎɐqǝ uo pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ı ǝɯıʇ ʇsɐן ǝɥʇ sı sıɥʇ
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Magic Man
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: South Wales Points: 5336 |
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Matt N
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: Hertfordshire Points: 2287 |
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Ok, thanks for that Odai.
Yes, just go with the cheapest.
Matt.
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Matt N
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: Hertfordshire Points: 2287 |
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Just another thing, can anyone recommend a PSU tester?
I currently have a Corsair TX-750W, probably had it just under two years. But I've had a HD4870 pop, so just want to check the PSU is all good before I go ordering and connecting new components.
Matt.
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Marmite
Chief Pilot Joined: 11 Apr 2008 Points: 1029 |
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If you're getting an antec case you could try their PSU Tester
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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No it isn't and no I don't - which is why I don't trust these sinks. I don't know enough about the structural properties of PCB's to be able to be comfortable with using such massively heavy heatsinks and putting that much stress on them.
Ha, I love it, you tell us you know nothing about the structural properties of PCB's, and then go on to tell us that the Noctua damages motherboards.
Well you said it. Noctua do know about PCB's, Noctua have tested this cooler. Noctua have concluded that the cooler is safe, even when moved around between Lan parties...
The problem is Odai, anyone else would say, ''yeah i know it's tested by noctua, and I know nothing about PCB's, but I worry that...'' Instead, based on zero knowledge of the structural properties of PCB's, and ignoring the fact that there's no examples of damage caused by this cooler, you argue definitively that it damages motherboards.
Read magic man's post again, his father did have experience of such things...
From Noctua, unless you are saying they are lier's????
It's their product, they tested it and deemed it safe. You should trust their qualified engineers, they haven't just guessed, they have conducted extensive testing on ''their own product.''
Show me just one example, from anywhere on the net, worldwide, of any motherboard damaged by this cooler?
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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No, it's not a moot point. The officially recommended temperatures go right out the window when you overclock. How many i7's at 5+GHz have you seen stable within Intel's temperature range? Same applies with sys temperatures
Matt won't be overclocking to 5GHz, neither am I, we couldn't if we tried on air, the air coolers aren't efficient enough.
I have told you, my system temps are very, very low. The lowest I've ever had in a PC. My system temps are well below the recommended max.
Your claim, in conetxt, was that the Noctua would compromise Matt's attempt at overcloking... it won't! It doesn't!
In short, it works, as desighned, as tested by Noctua engineers.
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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Matt, yes the Antec PSU tester, a lot of the other calculators are based on this anyway.
Or the simpler Calculator at Corsair's site...
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Marmite
Chief Pilot Joined: 11 Apr 2008 Points: 1029 |
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Calculator doesn't equal tester |
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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Oops...
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Matt N
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: Hertfordshire Points: 2287 |
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Thanks for that Marmite, I put the name into Scan, and they had the same Antec, and an XClio tester with out the LCD screen. Uses LED lights instead, bit cheaper as well. Got one on its way now from Play.com, £7.99.
I laughed so much when I saw that. I can imagine the amount of emphasis you'd put on the "LIER'S????" part if you was saying it aloud.
I'll see what Odai comes back with in the water cooling range, but I've found a Youtube video of the Noctua NH-D14 in an Antec 1200. The blue LED's shining over the Noctua NH-D14 does give the whole rig a nice flare.
Matt.
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