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Looking for an i7 Rig

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Matt N View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt N Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2010 at 3:30pm
Martin, that's your 21000' post. You should think about doing a book entitled "The Legendary Martin W's Best Bits". I'll take some credit for the title. Big%20smile
 
About the cooler. After some long price hunting, and research, I'm going with the H50-1. They both seem to perform very well, when the H50-1 is in push pull.
 
The only thing that swayed me was the price. I can only find the D14 at Scan and OcUK, but buying the D14 from Scan would put the price up 12.3%, (and 12.7% from OcUK) for the delivery.
 
The H50-1 at Aria is £56.39, paired with the i7 920 D0, it comes to £215.00.
 
I was thinking, if I got the Antec 1200 with that order, there should be enough airflow through the case to have the H50-1 in a Push/Pull config going out, rather than in the case.
 
Matt.
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2010 at 3:36pm
Martin, that's your 21000' post
 
Thats 21000 picies of junk then. Big%20smile
 
About the cooler. After some long price hunting, and research, I'm going with the H50-1.
 
Fair enough Matt. Ask slopey if he replaced the fans, I remember he said something about noise and replaced them. Not sure. I think Slopey's overclocking to 3.8.
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt N Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2010 at 4:01pm
Noise isn't an issue for me. My GPU sounds like some sort of industrial extractor fan as it is anyway.
 
Something I'm having problems with is RAM. There seems to be too much choice. Trying to narrow it down to buying the right set at the right price seems impossible.
 
So far my search for the right RAM has gone like this;
 
I go to one site, I go through all their RAM offerings. I decide on a certain RAM kit from that site.
I then Google it to find the lowest price and forum reviews. Then I go through the PC component shops that I normally use/subscribed to, to find the lowest price.
Then in one of the online shops I find another kit of RAM at a good price, so the Googling for prices and reviews start again, as well as the looking through online stores for the best price.
 
By this time I have 40 tabs open, IE goes non-responsive and crashes, and I have burning eyes. .
 
Matt.
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2010 at 4:06pm
Big%20smile
 
I was getting short of dosh by the time I got round to RAM, and ended up getting OCZ Gold 6gb 8 8 8 24 timings. Great price, works a treat.
 
You won't see any real benefit from super low latency RAM... although Odai will be here any second with 5 pages that disagree, so be ready. Big%20smile
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt N Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2010 at 5:02pm

Would this be it?

 
Its got the same timings as all the other RAM kits I've been looking at, accept this one which seems pretty cheap. But it hasn't gone down well on a few forums. High amounts being RMA'd apparently.
 
 
Matt.
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2010 at 6:24pm
That looks like the RAM Matt. No complaints so far. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Odai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2010 at 2:15am
Quote
I'm not making assumptions based on zero experience  
 
No, deductions based on factual knowledge. Wink
 
Quote There is zero sag, or at least i couldn't measure any.
 
There will be some, no mech is perfect.
 
Quote However, if the bolts, especially the top bolts are tightened sufficiently, the force applied to the CPU heat spreader is even.
 
Pressure...
 
If it is as sturdy as you claim, then the force on the top bolts would be greater than the bottom ones. If it's bolted to the motherboard as well as you claim, then that means additional stress on the board.
 
Quote Wrong. Big%20smile
 
No, not wrong, look up some reviews. I've had both air coolers (practically idential to the noctua) and liquid setups. Liquid setups are always getting better system temperatures.
 
Airflow isn't as simple as you put it, on both ends. Having all the heat transferred right to the exhaust of the case, and sucking out a little air to blow it away is far better than having it blown about the case, even if most of it ends up being blown out eventually.
 
I'm using a liquid setup now, and the inside temperature of the case is practically identical to the room temperature. When I had air cooling (similar setup to yours), the inside was much more toasty. On my LC machine, the exhaust air is a cool breeze. On my air only machine, the air coming out is warm. 
 
Quote
As for noise, no way, the Noctua is fine, no issues with noise.
 
I said relatively. Especially under load. With LC, the CPU, motherboard, and VGA can all be cooled with 3 low speed fans and still have much much lower temps. If it wasn't for the fact that it's impossible to be able to notice the extra noise during gaming anyway, I'd keep my fans on  low voltage all the time - you don't need as much airflow as you do with air cooling. On air coolers, fans have to spin faster to cope.
 
Those fans on the Noctua are way overrated - and I've heard the 140mm model is no improvement.
 
You wouldn't notice the strain/damage to the board, not with your eyes anyway. Damage can still occur though.
 
Quote If you are at all worried about that then you'd be worried about the top two screws holding your motherboard, and everything hanging off that, to the side of your case
 
That is one of the things I'd be worried about. Less concern about the cooler falling off, more concern about stress to the board and those tiny screws holding it to the case... Smile
 
Quote
"Almost" and "practically non-conductive" would not give me the same warm, safe feeling four hefty bolts and a sturdy back plate give I'm afraid...
 
That's not what I said....
 
I said in the event of damage, a warped board is far worse than a small drip of non-conductive coolant. You missed the fact that the likelihood of a leak is minute to begin with. Wink
 
WRT memory, I'd reccommend the G.Skill CAS 6 set, fantastic performance and overclocking and was a lot cheaper than Corsair/OCZ.
 
If you want to swap the fans on the H50 out, I'd suggest 2 Scythe Gentle Typhoon fans (1850 RPM model - you can always undervolt if you want them silent). They are often found to be the very best fans for both low and high restriction. The static pressure is amazing, so it performs very well on a radiator. You might also want to consider buying a couple of fan shrouds (if you have the space...), that'll push the temps down a bit and may even beat the Noctua. Wink
 
 
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2010 at 9:06am
No, deductions based on factual knowledge.
 
Ha... Big%20smile Only Odai would have the audacity to argue with someone that actually has the cooler, who's got first hand experience, who's eye balls have started at the thing intentely... there is no ''significant'' motherboard distortion.
 
My deductions are based on first hand knoweldge, fact. 
 
There will be some, no mech is perfect.
 
Of course, but nothing significant... I KNOW, I HAVE THE THING, YOU DONT. Wink
 
No, not wrong, look up some reviews. I've had both air coolers (practically idential to the noctua) and liquid setups. Liquid setups are always getting better system temperatures.
 
Who cares, my system temperatures are well below the recommended max, very cool indeed, the coolest system temp I've had in any PC. the fact your's are even cooler is not relevant, well done, but we don't care.
 
I said relatively. Especially under load. With LC, the CPU, motherboard, and VGA can all be cooled with 3 low speed fans and still have much much lower temps. If it wasn't for the fact that it's impossible to be able to notice the extra noise during gaming anyway, I'd keep my fans on  low voltage all the time - you don't need as much airflow as you do with air cooling. On air coolers, fans have to spin faster to cope.
 
So what, not relevant, the Noctua does not pose any issues in terms of excessive noise, thats the discussion, the merits of the Noctua, not how great water cooling is. Matt isn't buying a water cooling rig. Wink
 
You wouldn't notice the strain/damage to the board, not with your eyes anyway. Damage can still occur though.
 
Rubbish, if  distortion is so small you can't se it with your eyes, then it's not distorted enough to cause any structural damage.  There's not one case of the NH-D14 causing issues to MB's. Tested by Noctua and fit for purpose.
 
To sum up...
 
The Noctua NH-D14... IS NOT DANGEROUS FOR THE BOARD - I HAVE ONE - I KNOW - It's tested by Noctua and fit for purpose.
 
I was very paranoid when I got it, perfectly prepared to fashion a support bracket, I even had the strip of metal ready, and the design in mind - It wasn't necessary, as soon as I fitted it and realized what a great support system it was, and couldn't measure any appreciable sag, common sense dictated that a support bracket was pointless.
 
Noctua are not morons selling a fundamentally flawed product, it's well tested and works.
 
They even tested the mounting system during transportation, and it was still secure and safe.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2010 at 9:24am
Apologies to Matt for the direction this thread has taken.
 
Hopefully we can get back to giving Matt any help he needs now.
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Matt N View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt N Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2010 at 10:24am
. No worries.
 
I've decided on;
 
MOTHERBOARD
 
ASUS P6X58D-E (Already ordered)
 
 
RAM
 
Still not sure on which one. I like the price of the OCZ Obsidian. OcUK have it for £114.99, but looking around forums, there's lots of complaints about their stability at 1600MHz. The OCZ Gold is a good price £135.11 at Aria, or there's the Patriot Viper, a tad more at £141.99 from OcUK. Even with OcUK's delivery charges, the Patriot Viper is still cheaper than anywhere I've looked.
 
Patriot Viper 3x2GB
 
OCZ Obsidian 3x2GB
 
OCZ Gold 3x2GB
 
 
CPU
 
Intel Core i7 920 D0 Stepping
 
 
Case
 
I'll only get the 1200 if the price stays as it is at Aria. Any higher and I'll go for the Antec 902.
 
Antec 1200
 
Antec 902
 
 
CPU Cooler
 
If I get RAM from OcUK, I'll probably order the NH-D14. Two items for ~£10 delivery isn't too bad. Only problem is I don't think the Patriot Viper will fit with the NH-D14.
 
Corsair H50-1
 
Noctua NH-D14
 
Martin, have you got any side-on pictures of the NH-D14 on your motherboard?
 
I've noticed that your motherboard and the one I've got on order has almost the same spacing between the CPU and RAM. If the NH-D14 heatsink isn't over the second RAM slot I should be alright. I'd have to move the fan to the back of the heatsink though.
 
 
Matt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2010 at 11:11am
The HAF 932 is slightly cheaper on Aria than the 1200 https://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Components/Cases/MIDI+Tower/Coolermaster+HAF+RC-932+Black+ATX+Case+?productId=33726 
 
She is beautiful really...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2010 at 11:16am
That looks a good board Matt, 16+2 Phase Power Design as opposed to my 8, USB 3 etc. It wasn't available when I ordered mine, it's a new board. The BIOS won't be mature though. 
 
How does it handle overclocking, any reviews?
 
The Antec 902 is okay for the NH-D14, as it's wide enough. There's a Youtube vid with one fitted. I considered that case.
 
don't go too cheap for RAM, I looked at reliability as well, how many RMA's.
 
Side view...
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2010 at 11:25am
Yep, gets good reviews, good board, good price, good choice...
 
Quote The P6X58D-E’s BIOS will be immediately familiar to anyone who has experience with the P6T series. The layout and tweaking options are essentially the same and you get the same array of voltages. If we were being picky we’d prefer finer control over the DRAM voltage than the 0.2V increments provided but our overclocking results will dispel any suspicion of mediocrity, as we were able to hit a fully stable (24 hour prime 95 and linpack) base clock of 220MHz. This is sufficient to take good D0 Core i7 920 to 4.6GHz, which will beyond the capabilities of the chip unless you use a phase change unit. We were incredibly impressed by the robustness of the voltage regulation – this board overclocks like a board costing far more than it does. Our settings for the overclock were as follows;
 

Conclusion

All in all the Asus P6X58D-E is exactly what we were looking for in a P6T replacement. Its performance is superb and the overclocking facilities on offer are a match for boards costing far more money. The P6X58D-E owes much of its heritage from the P6X58D Premium but is a better board because of this. Users looking for a fantastic and well-priced next generation X58 motherboard should certainly check this product out – it renders most flagship products from other manufacturers all but redundant.

 
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2010 at 1:35pm
Just browsing over the latest Asus boards for future reference - love all the new features they keep adding...
 
Quote ROG Connect - Monitor the status of your desktop PC and tweak its parameters in real-time via a notebook
Basically, connect to a second pc via a usb cable and monitor and change bios parameters from there...
 
Quote RC Bluetooth - simply push the button from the Back I/O on the RC Bluetooth card, overclockers can real-time monitor the desktop PC system status & tweak its parameters - such as voltages and frequency on the fly
from a bluetooth connected device I presume.
 
Not cheap I expect, that is the top level Rampage III Extreme but I do love Asus boards and all the variations and new stuff they keep adding. Their workstation/professional boards have 6 x16 PCI-E sockets on there!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Odai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2010 at 8:49pm
Quote Of course, but nothing significant...
 
And how do you know what is significant? Wink
 
Quote
Who cares, my system temperatures are well below the recommended max, very cool indeed, the coolest system temp I've had in any PC. the fact your's are even cooler is not relevant, well done, but we don't care.
 
Of course it's relevant. Many components are passively cooled in a system, and rely on a cool sys temp. The RAM, NB and power modules for example. The cooler the system, the better. Especially when overclocking. You can get heat induced instability when overclocking, even if the system temperature is "well below the reccommended max".
 
Quote
So what, not relevant, the Noctua does not pose any issues in terms of excessive noise, thats the discussion, the merits of the Noctua, not how great water cooling is. Matt isn't buying a water cooling rig. Wink
 
It is... The same applies to the H50, which uses water cooling - incase you didn't notice. Wink 
 
Quote Rubbish, if  distortion is so small you can't se it with your eyes, then it's not distorted enough to cause any structural damage.
 
Wrong again. And besides, you can see strain, you can't see stress - even if it's at breaking point.
 
If you take a brittle but strong material, and put loads of stress on it, you will not see strain on it, even just before it breaks.
 
If you take an elastic band, you can only put a little bit of stress on it, but you will see a lot of strain.
 
Quote Ha... Big%20smile Only Odai would have the audacity to argue with someone that actually has the cooler, who's got first hand experience, who's eye balls have started at the thing intentely... there is no ''significant'' motherboard distortion.
 
And I think you would be the only one to have the audacity to argue with someone who actually knows something about Physics. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Odai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2010 at 9:10pm
I wouldn't reccommend buying a motheboard based on overclockability. You will hit a wall with your OC due to cooling limitations (assuming you're on air) long before you'll hit a wall with your motherboard's capabilities. This is the same reason I'd reccommend the 920 over the 930.
 
Quote OcUK have it for £114.99, but looking around forums, there's lots of complaints about their stability at 1600MHz.
 
Just ignore this. Every kit has a rating, and if you find it doesn't meet this when you test it, you should be able to take it straight back for a refund. For example, my G.Skill kit is rated to run at 1600MHz 6-7-6-18 1T with 1.65V. If it had needed more voltage to do that, it would have been classed as faulty and I would have been able to return it. Luckily, my kit could actually go all the way to 1700MHz with the same timings/voltage.
 
If you're overclocking your CPU, you'll need more overclocking headroom on your RAM. So going with a series of RAM that is designed for overclocking will be your best bet - as it means the modules are likely to be of a higher quality and will therefore offer better overclocking. For example, the Dominator series from Corsair, or the Trident from G.Skill.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt N Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2010 at 9:22pm
Quote The HAF 932 is slightly cheaper on Aria than the 1200
 
She is beautiful really...
 
Ah yes, the HAF. I like the HDD loading on that case, nice design.
 
Quote That looks a good board Matt, 16+2 Phase Power Design as opposed to my 8, USB 3 etc. It wasn't available when I ordered mine, it's a new board. The BIOS won't be mature though. 
 
How does it handle overclocking, any reviews?
 
They've removed all legacy ports from that board. I'll have to get rid of my very old IDE 40GB 4200RPM Maxtor storage drive. Should look a bit cleaner in the case with out the ribbons flowing around.
That's the only review I could find, the one you have there. There was a long description review about the motherboard that I found, but it talks more about the features on the board.
 
Thanks for the picture. It looks like if I was to move the far right fan over the left side there should be enough clearance for the Patriot RAM.
 
Matt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt N Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2010 at 9:31pm
Quote If you're overclocking your CPU, you'll need more overclocking headroom on your RAM. So going with a series of RAM that is designed for overclocking will be your best bet - as it means the modules are likely to be of a higher quality and will therefore offer better overclocking. For example, the Dominator series from Corsair, or the Trident from G.Skill.
 
What do you think about Patriot? Their 1600MHz Viper RAM is getting some very good reviews.
 
OcUK have it for £141.99 at the moment.
 
Matt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Odai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2010 at 4:12am
Originally posted by Matt N Matt N wrote:

Quote If you're overclocking your CPU, you'll need more overclocking headroom on your RAM. So going with a series of RAM that is designed for overclocking will be your best bet - as it means the modules are likely to be of a higher quality and will therefore offer better overclocking. For example, the Dominator series from Corsair, or the Trident from G.Skill.
 
What do you think about Patriot? Their 1600MHz Viper RAM is getting some very good reviews.
 
OcUK have it for £141.99 at the moment.
 
Matt.
 
I have no personal experience with Patriot - at the time I built my system I found the G.Skill kit was faster at stock and cheaper.
 
There is no significant difference in performance whatsoever between the products from the higher end manufacturers (many kits from different manufacturers even share the same module IC's). What matters is the overclockability, which is where going with specific products can help you. Corsair for example pick out the highest performing modules and market them as the Dominator RAM. So going for Dominator instead of XMS3 will increase your chances of getting a good overclock - even though, spec wise, they are identical. Only problem is, they obviously charge a premium for it.
 
So my advice would be for you to find out which products from Patriot (or whichever manufacturer you prefer) are specifically marketed for overclocking, and go for that one. You won't regret it if you have to pay a premium over cheaper products - RAM with little overclocking headroom has always been the biggest pain in the backside for me when trying to adjust my CPU overclock. Sometimes I will get to a certain base clock which allows a great stable overclock on the CPU, but forces the RAM frequency too high and I have to compromise.
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2010 at 10:30am
Originally posted by Odai Odai wrote:

And I think you would be the only one to have the audacity to argue with someone who actually knows something about Physics. Wink
 
You obviously know a lot about egotism as well it seems...
 
...but not a lot about PCBs. The amount of stress/strain that such a HSF bolted securely via four nuts and bolts and a solid back plate is putting on the board itself is not worth worrying about.
 
The amount of stress/strain applied via some water cooling systems is probally as much if not more if tubes are not very flexible/tightly curved etc, the weight of water blocks etc. It's a non issue and to keep arguing the point is basically saying you know better than the Noctua and all other HSF manufacurers engineers and designers - do you?
 
You should go back a few years and see some of the big toroidal transformers bolted through pcb's that I have - my dad was a training officer in a major electronics manufacturer of the time back in the 70's and 80's when components were big and heavy and pcbs didn't have anywhere near the strength of modern multi-layer boards. They built large boards for the telecomms industry - something the size of the Noctua would seem small compared to the heatsinks required on some of the amps back then. So please, don't argue the point anymore just because you "know something about Physics" - some of us have the experience from the real world...
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