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Matt N View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt N Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2010 at 5:11pm
I've found an Asus P6T on Amazon UK for £152.75, Free Delivery. Which seems like a good price.
 
One thing it doesn't have though is USB3.0 and SATA 3. Something that the GA-X58A-UD3R does have.
 
Matt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt N Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2010 at 9:32pm
Alright, I've just ordered an Asus P6X58D-E.
 
Seems to be in a few forums, being compared to the Asus P6T, Asus P6X58D Premium and Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R.
 
Got it for £167.31, Inc Delivery.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Odai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2010 at 9:49pm
Quote I know there was another thread about the i7 930, and how its a small refresh of the i7 920, and has a slightly better OC. But when I can pick up a i7 920 D0 for £158.61, it makes me think is the i7 930 really worth another £70?
 
Unless you're on LN2 or water, or you're unlucky with the components, you won't see any better OC potential with the  i7 930. And at that price the 920 D0 is a fantastic deal (I'm assuming that's inc VAT).
 
I wouldn't count on any promises of overclocks with any component. The overclock you manage to get is mostly down to luck. Unless you know your parts are coming pre-overclocked, don't count on getting a significant overclock. If you choose your parts really carefully though, you can improve your chances. If you can, I would suggest you look up some CPU batch codes on the Xtremesystems forum, and ask for a CPU from one of the good batches when you go ahead with your purchase. There are a number of retailers that will do this for you.
 
You will get different results to other people, so make sure to test your settings yourself and not use settings you find on the net. It's not a nice thing to see your CPU fry. Tongue
 
WRT cooling, you will see much better performance with liquid cooling than with air, especially with these LGA1366 parts (water cooling is optimised for higher thermal loads, so performance will far outstrip that of air cooling on hotter processors).
 
I am not a fan of the massive air coolers that have been reccommended in the past, as they are extremely heavy - far outside Intel's spec. As a result, I would not count on the motherboard being OK with the load. Intel cannot guarantee it will hold for a reason. There have been tests of the coolers obviously, otherwise it wouldn't be on the market, but there have been plenty of accidents with these monsters too. The heavy weight will also introduce a significant moment effect, so there will be more pressure on the "lower" half of the CPU. Not good long term.
 
Air coolers also are extremely loud when compared with water cooling under load.
 
Eventually, we'll all be using water liquid to cool our systems anyway, as heat load increases and air cooling becomes less efficient. This has been demonstrated well with the recent Fermi cards, where it is almost impossible to maintain safe temps and have an OC at the same time using air. Big%20smile
 
Only disadvantage with liquid cooling is the increased difficulty/fussiness of installation. Leaks are not a problem whatsoever as long as you use quality parts and leak test for 24-48 hours before powering on the system.
 
Watch out for these all in one water cooling kits though, they are only offer as good performance as high end air coolers. Although they come without the weight issues I guess.
 
If you do decide on water cooling, I would reccommend the Corsair Obsidian series case.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Odai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2010 at 10:13pm

Sorry, missed your post there Matt.

USB3 and SATA6 at this point are not worth it, the market is still in it's infancy and products are very expensive and rare. Also, full wintel integration won't be here for at least another year. My guess is probably with the new Sandy Bridge platform (X68?).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt N Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2010 at 10:29pm
Yes, the i7 920 D0 is including VAT.
 
I've looked at Scan for custom liquid cooling, but its way out of my price range, ~£130, for Radiator, Pump, Block, Tubing and Liquid.
 
Are you sure there would be more pressure on the lower half of the CPU? If the heatsink has a backplate, the CPU would be sandwedged in. Surly if you pushed down on the heatsink, the CPU would move with it, because of the backplate.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt N Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2010 at 10:39pm
Originally posted by Odai Odai wrote:

Sorry, missed your post there Matt.

USB3 and SATA6 at this point are not worth it, the market is still in it's infancy and products are very expensive and rare. Also, full wintel integration won't be here for at least another year. My guess is probably with the new Sandy Bridge platform (X68?).
 
Would SSD take advantage of SATA6? Incase I opt for one next year.
 
Although I paid extra than I needed for my curent P5Q Pro. I brought it two years ago thinking I would go for a 45nm Core 2 Quad CPU later down the line. Instead I stayed with the 65nm E6850. Had I known, I could of gone with the GA-P35-DS3R and saved a bundle.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2010 at 11:07pm
Originally posted by Matt N Matt N wrote:

Are you sure there would be more pressure on the lower half of the CPU? If the heatsink has a backplate, the CPU would be sandwedged in. Surly if you pushed down on the heatsink, the CPU would move with it, because of the backplate.
 
Nothing to worry about. The Intel specs are for their mounting method, i.e. push pin from the front. 3rd party cooler as you say tend to use backplates which totally takes them out of the spec requirements of Intel.
 
There will be no momentum on the lower half of the cpu since the cooler is attached via four bolts so for any momentum to occur, the top two would need to be loose. As long as you don't go shifting your build from room to room, house to house every day etc then there is absolutely nothing to worry about with the big air coolers, they are designed, even over engineered for the job.
 
If everyone is happy mounting their entire motherboard with everything on it via 6 small screws to a case panel then the hsf alone mounted via four sturdy bolts is more than enough. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Odai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2010 at 11:18pm
Quote I've looked at Scan for custom liquid cooling, but its way out of my price range, ~£130, for Radiator, Pump, Block, Tubing and Liquid.
 
Scan aren't all that good when it comes to LC, but other retailers won't be that much cheaper when it comes to price. So if it's way out of your budget as you say, then it's probably worth sticking to air.
 
Quote
Are you sure there would be more pressure on the lower half of the CPU? If the heatsink has a backplate, the CPU would be sandwedged in. Surly if you pushed down on the heatsink, the CPU would move with it, because of the backplate.
 
Definitely, the weight of the cooler is still there, whether or not  the cooler is allowed to move relative to the CPU is irrelvant. If you had a rock on your chest, you would feel it's weight even if it was stationary. In addition, the mounting mechanism is not absolutely perfect and as a result there will be a little bit of movement relative to the CPU anyway.
 
Either way, that's not the big problem. The difference in pressure might only produce very small differences in temperature. The main problem is the amount of stress on the motherboard, you will also see a little bit of strain as the motherboard does sag very slightly under the weight of the cooler. Simply put, Intel did not create the design reference to cope with these very high weights. They have improved over the past designs (they now reinforce the socket area with metal), but it's not enough to put the weight of these very heavy air coolers into the specification range. I cannot remember the exact numbers, I'll try to dig them up for you.  
 
Quote Would SSD take advantage of SATA6? Incase I opt for one next year.
 
SSD tech definitely can take advantage of SATA6(Gbps), and more. SATA3 is already a bottleneck for the current generation of drives. However, the prices are already at an insane level for SSD's. Imagine how much you'd end up paying for a SATA6 SSD. USB3 and SATA6 are still relatively very new technologies.
 
When I purchased my Asus R2E (no USB3 SATA6 etc), I had the choice to either go ahead and buy it or wait for a motherboard (the Gigabyte UD7 I think) that supported USB3/SATA6 to arrive. However, I knew at the time that it would be pointless as it would take ages for devices to start trickling through, and even longer for prices to become decent and full Windows/Intel integration to take place (currently, third party chips have to be used on the motherboards for support, which theoretically increases latency). So, I went ahead and purchased my lovely Asus R2E, and a little while later there was a report from an industry insider that Wintel integration was still a long way off (18 months was reported at the time).
 
When I do my next big upgrade (probably in a couple of years when Ivy Bridge arrives) I expect the new USB/SATA to have already matured. Until then, I'm very happy with my current system and have absolutely no need for the new stuff. Big%20smile 
 
EDIT: Missed Magic's post. I didn't know the spec only counted for the standard intel mount, but the stress problem still remains. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Odai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2010 at 11:19pm
Quote There will be no momentum on the lower half of the cpu since the cooler is attached via four bolts so for any momentum to occur, the top two would need to be loose.
 
Not momentum, moment. Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt N Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2010 at 11:25pm

Thanks MM, that's what I was thinking.

Only Scan and OcUK seem to do the NH-D14 (both priced equally), so I'll probably get the RAM from one of them at the same time, to justify the shipping.
 
Although I can get the i7 920 D0 and H50-1 bundled for £215. Sloppy seems happy with the H50 in a Push/Pull config.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2010 at 11:32pm
No moment neither Tongue since the four bolts are static. Yes, the 'sinks are heavy but unless you are throwing your case around or are incapable of securing four bolts then there are no issues to worry about.
 
The risk of damage to the motherboard caused by a heavy heatsink is balanced by the risk of damage to the system by a leaky water cooling setup...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt N Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2010 at 11:34pm
Quote SSD tech definitely can take advantage of SATA6(Gbps), and more. SATA3 is already a bottleneck for the current generation of drives. However, the prices are already at an insane level for SSD's. Imagine how much you'd end up paying for a SATA6 SSD. USB3 and SATA6 are still relatively very new technologies.
 
That's good to know about the advantage of SATA6. The Asus P6X58D-E has a couple of SATA6 and USB3.0 ports, I probably won't use them but I'd rather have a board with them incase.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Odai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2010 at 12:27am

Quote No moment neither Tongue 

Of course there's a moment, there's a non-zero force (big weight) and a non-zero radius (centre of gravity of cooler is away from the pivot). You don't need movement for there to be a moment. The moment is basically a property of the force, and where there is force and area there is pressure, therefore there is a pressure differential on the CPU. If you don't believe me, lie down, and put a heavy rock on your chest. I bet you'll feel it, even if the system is static. Wink Forces don't just disappear because a system is in equilibrium. If they did, it would have made my mechanics course a hell of a lot simpler. Big%20smile 
 
You're talking about strain, which is probably minimal, but still present. I'm talking about stress, which is big. That is the main problem, and it is very significant.
 
Quote
The risk of damage to the motherboard caused by a heavy heatsink is balanced by the risk of damage to the system by a leaky water cooling setup...
 
Assuming both setups are done properly, I'd much rather have an almost non-existent drip of pracitically non-conductive fluid which you'll quickly catch than a warped board. Tongue
 
Matt seems to have a limited budget anyways, so talk of getting a higher end kit is irrelevant. However, I'd reccommend the H50 over the Noctua due to it being much safer WRT weight/size. Plus, you'll have better system temps because the heat from the CPU is being channeled straight to the radiator, where it will be carried right out of the case by the airflow.  
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2010 at 9:57am
Odai...
 
I have one. Big%20smile
 
I'm not making assumptions based on zero experience of this product like you are.
 
I have the Noctua bolted to my motherboard.
 
I can absolutely assure you, the mounting mechanism designed by Noctua is absolute sturdy, a very good system indeed.
 
There is zero sag, or at least i couldn't measure any.
 
Noctua didn't put a cooler on the market without testing. There are absolutely zero cases of the Noctua NH-D14 causing issues.
 
But I'm sure you'll do a search and cherry pick. Wink
 
The moment is basically a property of the force, and where there is force and area there is pressure, therefore there is a pressure differential on the CPU.
 
However, if the bolts, especially the top bolts are tightened sufficiently, the force applied to the CPU heat spreader is even. And if the motherboard bolts are in the right place, and tightened sufficiently, and distortion of the board is minimal and well within the boards capabilities to withstand.
 
But lets not post, and post, and post unnecessarily. I have the cooler it is secure, it is safe, I HAVE ONE! Big%20smile
 
I was perfectly prepared to knock up a bracket for support, but it isn't required at all.
 
 Plus, you'll have better system temps because the heat from the CPU is being channeled straight to the radiator, where it will be carried right out of the case by the airflow.
 
Wrong. Big%20smile I have the noctua. System temps are great, couldn't be better. CPU temps are also superb, 7 degrees better than the H50.
 
look at my photo, the heat form the noctua is sucked directly out of the case. Any residual heat from the fins is minimal and doesn't result in high enclosure temps. I KNOW, I HAVE THE COOLER!  Big%20smileWink
 
Also, the H50 is designed by Corsair to have the fans orientated to blow air into the case, over the radiator. This claim Corsair, is the optimum orientation. Necessitating reversal of other case fans to exhaust the heat the H50 pumps into the Case.
 
I'm not speculating like you are Odai. I HAVE ONE!
 
As for noise, no way, the Noctua is fine, no issues with noise.
 
Matt, do not be put off the Noctua in terms of weight. I'm basing this on fact, my own personal experience, not speculation.
 
Originally posted by Magic Magic wrote:

Nothing to worry about. The Intel specs are for their mounting method, i.e. push pin from the front. 3rd party cooler as you say tend to use backplates which totally takes them out of the spec requirements of Intel.
 
From Noctua...
 
Originally posted by Noctua, the peple that designed and tested it Noctua, the peple that designed and tested it wrote:

Is the high weight dangerous for the CPU or socket?
No. Noctua NH-U coolers possess an extremely reliable SecuFirm™ mounting system. Even transporting the pc with the cooler installed is entirely safe. Thanks to the screw connection with the backplate on the rear side of the motherboard, the exceedance of the weight recommendations by Intel and AMD common among high-end coolers is completely unobjectionable.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2010 at 10:00am
Assuming both setups are done properly, I'd much rather have an almost non-existent drip of pracitically non-conductive fluid which you'll quickly catch than a warped board. Tongue
 
H50 leaks...  plenty of cases on the net. I've posted them before.
 
Noctua and warped motherbords... no cases found. Plenty of speculation but no cases.
 
Odai, lets not ruin matts topic with arguments about ''the best cooling''. Big%20smile
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2010 at 12:23pm

Yep, I am, like I'm sure many others are, in awe of your physics knowledge and appreciate the detailed explaination on moments Odai but the fact of the matter is, it really doesn't matter.

The retention mechanism is more than enough to hold the HSF in place and is perfectly secure and reliable. If you are at all worried about that then you'd be worried about the top two screws holding your motherboard, and everything hanging off that, to the side of your case - perhaps you've welded yours in place.

Quote
Assuming both setups are done properly, I'd much rather have an almost non-existent drip of pracitically non-conductive fluid which you'll quickly catch than a warped board. Tongue
 
"Almost" and "practically non-conductive" would not give me the same warm, safe feeling four hefty bolts and a sturdy back plate give I'm afraid...
 
Quote  I'd reccommend the H50 over the Noctua due to it being much safer WRT weight/size.
Not much safer at all, totally incorrect. Even more so since Martin has pointed out that there have been reports of H50's leaking.
 
Quote
 Plus, you'll have better system temps because the heat from the CPU is being channeled straight to the radiator, where it will be carried right out of the case by the airflow.
 
Also incorrect since Martin has pointed out the real world figure of how the Noctua compares
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2010 at 12:30pm
to add...
 
Quote

Conclusion

We must say that the Noctua NH-D14 is designed the way it is for a reason! It works! This is perfect example in which we can say size does matter!  PCWizKid was impressed and toke the NH-D14 to the next level with a fully overclocked system in a mid tower PCwizKid%20recommendedcase.  Pushing the NH-D14 to the limits it demonstrated and handled well our test system which has all the latest components.  The only thing to worry about would be installing memory that was really tall with high heat spreaders.  In our case the high end memory we used was low profile and worked excellent with the cooler.  Despite the intimidating size of the NH-D14 it was not difficult to install and was not a problem in our system.  Another factor that contributes to the results we got is that the NH-D14 has the signature NH-P12 and NH-P14 fans which are premium high quality fans which assist in the overall goal on getting things cool.  A perfect combination which gives perfect results.  This is the next best thing to liquid cpu cooling and PCWizKid recommends this for any PC enthusiast.

I can most definitely agree with the review above, superb cooler, safe, with no motherboard warping at all, great cooling, the best air cooler around.
 
 

It is not everyday that one has the opportunity to review a product that “screams” quality all over and finding faults (with it) is like looking for a needle in a haystack. Is Noctua NH-14D is that rare product? Read on to find out.

http://wccftech.com/2009/12/12/noctua-nhd14-cpu-cooler-review/

Quote Is this the best air cooler in the market right now? The answer is a definite yes! There is a lot going for this even if you do not delve into its cooling performance too much. It is easy to install, comes with a great set of accessories and can be used on almost all types of processors available in the market today without buying additional parts.

If you are into over clocking and are looking for a solid air cooling solution look no further. The NH-14D will not disappoint.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2010 at 1:29pm
Some Cherry picking...
 
Quote
H50 leak

hi my h50's temps started to worse over a month and i wasnt sure what it was so i took off the cooler/pump reapplied tim twice (AS5 and MX-2) but that didnt make a difference so then on friday i got another cpu so i was changing it over and noticed there was dampness at the bottom of the rad so i got paper towels and got the h50 out there as fast as i could and at closer inspection one of the tubes has torn right at the barbs at the radiator sorry i dont have a camera to show you a picture of it and it never damaged any of my hardware how do i go about gettin an RMA thanks
 
so anyone know about RMA i seen a thread on here with a guy having the same problems with the tubes at the barbs like i have and he got an RMA no problem
 
 
 
 
Whether Corsair would cover the damage to motherboard and componants is the question. I doubt it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slopey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2010 at 1:54pm
Meh. Install it, don't play with it, no problem.

Matt - Martin/Magic/Odai will argue until the day is long and then some. You're on the right track - pick what *you* want, and get it.

(Otherwise you'll still be posting on this thread in 6 months time! )
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2010 at 3:12pm
Not the point Slopey. neither magic or I are trying to convince Matt of anything.
 
I agree, the H50 is a great cooler, leaks are rare.
 
Magic man was just trying to point out to Odai that to claim the Noctua is dodgy due to the weight is no different to the risk of any cooler, for example the water leaks from the H50.
 
I have no wish to be a Noctua fan boy, but I will comment if inaccurate claims of Noctua excessive weight are brought up... when I actually have the damn cooler. Big%20smile And there is NO MOTHERBOARD DISTORTION. Big%20smile
 
I Just don't want Matt being fed inaccurate claims based on no personal experience of the Noctua.
 
In short, if I couldn't afford water cooling, and I wasn't bothered about buying the ''best'' air cooler, I might go for the Corsair. However, if max cooling is required on air, the Noctua is the best.
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