Looking for an i7 Rig |
Post Reply | Page <1234 11> |
Author | |||
Matt N
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: Hertfordshire Points: 2287 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
I've found an Asus P6T on Amazon UK for £152.75, Free Delivery. Which seems like a good price.
One thing it doesn't have though is USB3.0 and SATA 3. Something that the GA-X58A-UD3R does have.
Matt.
|
|||
Matt N
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: Hertfordshire Points: 2287 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Alright, I've just ordered an Asus P6X58D-E.
Seems to be in a few forums, being compared to the Asus P6T, Asus P6X58D Premium and Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R.
Got it for £167.31, Inc Delivery.
Good review about it here: http://itshootout.com/r-339/asus-p6x58d-e-motherboard-review/
Matt.
|
|||
Odai
Chief Pilot Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Location: NW England Points: 3731 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Unless you're on LN2 or water, or you're unlucky with the components, you won't see any better OC potential with the i7 930. And at that price the 920 D0 is a fantastic deal (I'm assuming that's inc VAT).
I wouldn't count on any promises of overclocks with any component. The overclock you manage to get is mostly down to luck. Unless you know your parts are coming pre-overclocked, don't count on getting a significant overclock. If you choose your parts really carefully though, you can improve your chances. If you can, I would suggest you look up some CPU batch codes on the Xtremesystems forum, and ask for a CPU from one of the good batches when you go ahead with your purchase. There are a number of retailers that will do this for you.
You will get different results to other people, so make sure to test your settings yourself and not use settings you find on the net. It's not a nice thing to see your CPU fry.
WRT cooling, you will see much better performance with liquid cooling than with air, especially with these LGA1366 parts (water cooling is optimised for higher thermal loads, so performance will far outstrip that of air cooling on hotter processors).
I am not a fan of the massive air coolers that have been reccommended in the past, as they are extremely heavy - far outside Intel's spec. As a result, I would not count on the motherboard being OK with the load. Intel cannot guarantee it will hold for a reason. There have been tests of the coolers obviously, otherwise it wouldn't be on the market, but there have been plenty of accidents with these monsters too. The heavy weight will also introduce a significant moment effect, so there will be more pressure on the "lower" half of the CPU. Not good long term.
Air coolers also are extremely loud when compared with water cooling under load.
Eventually, we'll all be using
Only disadvantage with liquid cooling is the increased difficulty/fussiness of installation. Leaks are not a problem whatsoever as long as you use quality parts and leak test for 24-48 hours before powering on the system.
Watch out for these all in one water cooling kits though, they are only offer as good performance as high end air coolers. Although they come without the weight issues I guess.
If you do decide on water cooling, I would reccommend the Corsair Obsidian series case.
|
|||
ʎɐqǝ uo pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ı ǝɯıʇ ʇsɐן ǝɥʇ sı sıɥʇ
|
|||
Odai
Chief Pilot Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Location: NW England Points: 3731 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Sorry, missed your post there Matt. USB3 and SATA6 at this point are not worth it, the market is still in it's infancy and products are very expensive and rare. Also, full wintel integration won't be here for at least another year. My guess is probably with the new Sandy Bridge platform (X68?).
|
|||
ʎɐqǝ uo pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ı ǝɯıʇ ʇsɐן ǝɥʇ sı sıɥʇ
|
|||
Matt N
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: Hertfordshire Points: 2287 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Yes, the i7 920 D0 is including VAT.
I've looked at Scan for custom liquid cooling, but its way out of my price range, ~£130, for Radiator, Pump, Block, Tubing and Liquid.
Are you sure there would be more pressure on the lower half of the CPU? If the heatsink has a backplate, the CPU would be sandwedged in. Surly if you pushed down on the heatsink, the CPU would move with it, because of the backplate.
Matt.
|
|||
Matt N
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: Hertfordshire Points: 2287 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Would SSD take advantage of SATA6? Incase I opt for one next year.
Although I paid extra than I needed for my curent P5Q Pro. I brought it two years ago thinking I would go for a 45nm Core 2 Quad CPU later down the line. Instead I stayed with the 65nm E6850. Had I known, I could of gone with the GA-P35-DS3R and saved a bundle.
Matt.
|
|||
Magic Man
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: South Wales Points: 5336 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Nothing to worry about. The Intel specs are for their mounting method, i.e. push pin from the front. 3rd party cooler as you say tend to use backplates which totally takes them out of the spec requirements of Intel.
There will be no momentum on the lower half of the cpu since the cooler is attached via four bolts so for any momentum to occur, the top two would need to be loose. As long as you don't go shifting your build from room to room, house to house every day etc then there is absolutely nothing to worry about with the big air coolers, they are designed, even over engineered for the job.
If everyone is happy mounting their entire motherboard with everything on it via 6 small screws to a case panel then the hsf alone mounted via four sturdy bolts is more than enough.
|
|||
Odai
Chief Pilot Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Location: NW England Points: 3731 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Scan aren't all that good when it comes to LC, but other retailers won't be that much cheaper when it comes to price. So if it's way out of your budget as you say, then it's probably worth sticking to air.
Definitely, the weight of the cooler is still there, whether or not the cooler is allowed to move relative to the CPU is irrelvant. If you had a rock on your chest, you would feel it's weight even if it was stationary. In addition, the mounting mechanism is not absolutely perfect and as a result there will be a little bit of movement relative to the CPU anyway.
Either way, that's not the big problem. The difference in pressure might only produce very small differences in temperature. The main problem is the amount of stress on the motherboard, you will also see a little bit of strain as the motherboard does sag very slightly under the weight of the cooler. Simply put, Intel did not create the design reference to cope with these very high weights. They have improved over the past designs (they now reinforce the socket area with metal), but it's not enough to put the weight of these very heavy air coolers into the specification range. I cannot remember the exact numbers, I'll try to dig them up for you.
SSD tech definitely can take advantage of SATA6(Gbps), and more. SATA3 is already a bottleneck for the current generation of drives. However, the prices are already at an insane level for SSD's. Imagine how much you'd end up paying for a SATA6 SSD. USB3 and SATA6 are still relatively very new technologies.
When I purchased my Asus R2E (no USB3 SATA6 etc), I had the choice to either go ahead and buy it or wait for a motherboard (the Gigabyte UD7 I think) that supported USB3/SATA6 to arrive. However, I knew at the time that it would be pointless as it would take ages for devices to start trickling through, and even longer for prices to become decent and full Windows/Intel integration to take place (currently, third party chips have to be used on the motherboards for support, which theoretically increases latency). So, I went ahead and purchased my lovely Asus R2E, and a little while later there was a report from an industry insider that Wintel integration was still a long way off (18 months was reported at the time).
When I do my next big upgrade (probably in a couple of years when Ivy Bridge arrives) I expect the new USB/SATA to have already matured. Until then, I'm very happy with my current system and have absolutely no need for the new stuff.
EDIT: Missed Magic's post. I didn't know the spec only counted for the standard intel mount, but the stress problem still remains. |
|||
ʎɐqǝ uo pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ı ǝɯıʇ ʇsɐן ǝɥʇ sı sıɥʇ
|
|||
Odai
Chief Pilot Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Location: NW England Points: 3731 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Not momentum, moment.
|
|||
ʎɐqǝ uo pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ı ǝɯıʇ ʇsɐן ǝɥʇ sı sıɥʇ
|
|||
Matt N
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: Hertfordshire Points: 2287 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Thanks MM, that's what I was thinking. Only Scan and OcUK seem to do the NH-D14 (both priced equally), so I'll probably get the RAM from one of them at the same time, to justify the shipping.
Although I can get the i7 920 D0 and H50-1 bundled for £215. Sloppy seems happy with the H50 in a Push/Pull config.
Matt.
|
|||
Magic Man
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: South Wales Points: 5336 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
No moment neither since the four bolts are static. Yes, the 'sinks are heavy but unless you are throwing your case around or are incapable of securing four bolts then there are no issues to worry about.
The risk of damage to the motherboard caused by a heavy heatsink is balanced by the risk of damage to the system by a leaky water cooling setup...
|
|||
Matt N
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: Hertfordshire Points: 2287 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
That's good to know about the advantage of SATA6. The Asus P6X58D-E has a couple of SATA6 and USB3.0 ports, I probably won't use them but I'd rather have a board with them incase.
Matt.
|
|||
Odai
Chief Pilot Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Location: NW England Points: 3731 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Of course there's a moment, there's a non-zero force (big weight) and a non-zero radius (centre of gravity of cooler is away from the pivot). You don't need movement for there to be a moment. The moment is basically a property of the force, and where there is force and area there is pressure, therefore there is a pressure differential on the CPU. If you don't believe me, lie down, and put a heavy rock on your chest. I bet you'll feel it, even if the system is static. Forces don't just disappear because a system is in equilibrium. If they did, it would have made my mechanics course a hell of a lot simpler.
You're talking about strain, which is probably minimal, but still present. I'm talking about stress, which is big. That is the main problem, and it is very significant.
Assuming both setups are done properly, I'd much rather have an almost non-existent drip of pracitically non-conductive fluid which you'll quickly catch than a warped board.
Matt seems to have a limited budget anyways, so talk of getting a higher end kit is irrelevant. However, I'd reccommend the H50 over the Noctua due to it being much safer WRT weight/size. Plus, you'll have better system temps because the heat from the CPU is being channeled straight to the radiator, where it will be carried right out of the case by the airflow.
|
|||
ʎɐqǝ uo pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ı ǝɯıʇ ʇsɐן ǝɥʇ sı sıɥʇ
|
|||
MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Odai...
I have one.
I'm not making assumptions based on zero experience of this product like you are.
I have the Noctua bolted to my motherboard.
I can absolutely assure you, the mounting mechanism designed by Noctua is absolute sturdy, a very good system indeed.
There is zero sag, or at least i couldn't measure any.
Noctua didn't put a cooler on the market without testing. There are absolutely zero cases of the Noctua NH-D14 causing issues.
But I'm sure you'll do a search and cherry pick.
The moment is basically a property of the force, and where there is force and area there is pressure, therefore there is a pressure differential on the CPU.
However, if the bolts, especially the top bolts are tightened sufficiently, the force applied to the CPU heat spreader is even. And if the motherboard bolts are in the right place, and tightened sufficiently, and distortion of the board is minimal and well within the boards capabilities to withstand.
But lets not post, and post, and post unnecessarily. I have the cooler it is secure, it is safe, I HAVE ONE!
I was perfectly prepared to knock up a bracket for support, but it isn't required at all.
Plus, you'll have better system temps because the heat from the CPU is being channeled straight to the radiator, where it will be carried right out of the case by the airflow.
Wrong. I have the noctua. System temps are great, couldn't be better. CPU temps are also superb, 7 degrees better than the H50.
look at my photo, the heat form the noctua is sucked directly out of the case. Any residual heat from the fins is minimal and doesn't result in high enclosure temps. I KNOW, I HAVE THE COOLER!
Also, the H50 is designed by Corsair to have the fans orientated to blow air into the case, over the radiator. This claim Corsair, is the optimum orientation. Necessitating reversal of other case fans to exhaust the heat the H50 pumps into the Case.
I'm not speculating like you are Odai. I HAVE ONE!
As for noise, no way, the Noctua is fine, no issues with noise.
Matt, do not be put off the Noctua in terms of weight. I'm basing this on fact, my own personal experience, not speculation.
From Noctua...
|
|||
MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Assuming both setups are done properly, I'd much rather have an almost non-existent drip of pracitically non-conductive fluid which you'll quickly catch than a warped board.
H50 leaks... plenty of cases on the net. I've posted them before.
Noctua and warped motherbords... no cases found. Plenty of speculation but no cases.
Odai, lets not ruin matts topic with arguments about ''the best cooling''.
|
|||
Magic Man
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: South Wales Points: 5336 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Yep, I am, like I'm sure many others are, in awe of your physics knowledge and appreciate the detailed explaination on moments Odai but the fact of the matter is, it really doesn't matter. The retention mechanism is more than enough to hold the HSF in place and is perfectly secure and reliable. If you are at all worried about that then you'd be worried about the top two screws holding your motherboard, and everything hanging off that, to the side of your case - perhaps you've welded yours in place.
"Almost" and "practically non-conductive" would not give me the same warm, safe feeling four hefty bolts and a sturdy back plate give I'm afraid...
Not much safer at all, totally incorrect. Even more so since Martin has pointed out that there have been reports of H50's leaking.
Also incorrect since Martin has pointed out the real world figure of how the Noctua compares |
|||
MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
to add...
It is not everyday that one has the opportunity to review a product that “screams” quality all over and finding faults (with it) is like looking for a needle in a haystack. Is Noctua NH-14D is that rare product? Read on to find out. http://wccftech.com/2009/12/12/noctua-nhd14-cpu-cooler-review/
|
|||
MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Some Cherry picking...
Whether Corsair would cover the damage to motherboard and componants is the question. I doubt it. |
|||
Slopey
Moderator in Command AirHauler Developer Joined: 11 Jun 2008 Points: 8280 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Meh. Install it, don't play with it, no problem.
Matt - Martin/Magic/Odai will argue until the day is long and then some. You're on the right track - pick what *you* want, and get it. (Otherwise you'll still be posting on this thread in 6 months time! ) |
|||
AirHauler Developer
For AH2 queries - PLEASE USE THE EA Forums as the first port of call. |
|||
MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Not the point Slopey. neither magic or I are trying to convince Matt of anything.
I agree, the H50 is a great cooler, leaks are rare.
Magic man was just trying to point out to Odai that to claim the Noctua is dodgy due to the weight is no different to the risk of any cooler, for example the water leaks from the H50.
I have no wish to be a Noctua fan boy, but I will comment if inaccurate claims of Noctua excessive weight are brought up... when I actually have the damn cooler. And there is NO MOTHERBOARD DISTORTION.
I Just don't want Matt being fed inaccurate claims based on no personal experience of the Noctua.
In short, if I couldn't afford water cooling, and I wasn't bothered about buying the ''best'' air cooler, I might go for the Corsair. However, if max cooling is required on air, the Noctua is the best.
|
|||
Post Reply | Page <1234 11> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |