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Obama Cancels "Return to the Moon"

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Flightboy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flightboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2010 at 9:41pm
"They were broke you idiot"
"You are, quite aptly, a lunatic"
"You have serious psychological issues"
"Vulcan you are irrational. I sometimes think you do this for attention. You are profoundly insecure"


I thought personal insults were against the rules? Sad when you have to sink to name calling Smile tho if its allowed now that would be a bonus!

The real question, is that if Obama canceled the trip to the moon because it was all fake the first time, and too hard to get there... why then did Bush say we would go back in the first place?


As stated before its a good way of moving billions about without having to explain in detail whats been spent where. NASA is a nice front for such needs

care to tell us how they manged to construct a vacuum chamber as big as a film studio?
surley that would be easier than getting man to the moon? and alot quicker? Not saying they had too of course
 
Care to tell us how they kept quiet the thousands of personnel that would have been involved?
There is 7 levels of secuirty above president obamas so not everyone has to know everything ( as has been stated )
 
care to tell us how the Russians were fooled by this conspiracy?
Apart from it already stated already there was no way the russians were able to track the deep space that would have been needed to see the moon landings had the russians said that the moon landings were a hoax in the cold war what do you think the world would have said? you would either take the crazy russains proof or the americans
 
care to answer any of the other objections to your lunacy?
Your "retarded" comment was not only offensive but inaccurate. I would rather have something that questions what they are being told rather than someone who just has the one source of infomation and believes it all. More fool you

Spaceboy

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2010 at 10:10pm
Flighty, your late to the party, please, just leave it there before you end up making a fool of yourself.
 
We've been here before with Vulcan, 19th June last year actually (http://forum.justflight.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=8114&KW=moon+landing&PN=1), same stuff, same irrational arguments, same conclusions.
 
Actually, one interesting point was this from one contributor who seemed to remember a previous discussion on the same subject, he said this after viewing that same video posted by Martin comparing the feather and hammer, suggesting he did believe we went there after all..
 
Quote Actually, I seem to recall you did convince me some time ago.

I think the feather footage did it last time.
 
Care to take a guess who said that...?
 
Yep, strange eh... No, not really, just the exact same behaviour some of us have come to expect from our little friend.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flightboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2010 at 10:15pm
Originally posted by Magic Man Magic Man wrote:

Flighty, your late to the party, please, just leave it there before you end up making a fool of yourself.
 
We've been here before with Vulcan, 19th June last year actually (http://forum.justflight.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=8114&KW=moon+landing&PN=1), same stuff, same irrational arguments, same conclusions.
 
Actually, one interesting point was this from one contributor who seemed to remember a previous discussion on the same subject, he said this after viewing that same video posted by Martin comparing the feather and hammer, suggesting he did believe we went there after all..
 
Quote Actually, I seem to recall you did convince me some time ago.

I think the feather footage did it last time.
 
Care to take a guess who said that...?
 
Yep, strange eh... No, not really, just the exact same behaviour some of us have come to expect from our little friend.


Just because he has a very up front in your face way of putting his point across dosnt make him wrong :)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2010 at 10:20pm
He is wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2010 at 10:49am
Just because he has a very up front in your face way of putting his point across dosnt make him wrong :)
 
Indeed, but as magic said, he is wrong. Wink The fact that he's wrong, makes him wrong. Wink
 
Vulcan is enough to drive a saint to [mild] personal insults. Wink You of course agree with Vulcan because you have demonstrated many times that you share the same cerebral configuration.
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 
 
Right, read this lot, and hopefully we will put an end to this nonsense...
 
 
 
Originally posted by Flightboy Flightboy wrote:

Apart from it already stated already there was no way the russians were able to track the deep space
 
Quote

Observers of all missions

The Soviet Union monitored the missions at the Space Transmissions Corps, which was "fully equipped with the latest intelligence-gathering and surveillance equipment".[21] Vasily Mishin ("The Moon Programme That Faltered."), in Spaceflight. 33 (March 1991): 2-3 describes how the Soviet Moon programme lost energy after Apollo.

The missions were tracked by radar from several countries on the way to the Moon and back.[22]

In Australia, Honeysuckle Creek Tracking Station monitored transmissions from Apollo missions, from:

Deaking Switching Station was the switching station for the Apollo television broadcasts.
 
 
 
Quote

Ultraviolet photographs

 

Long-exposure photos were taken with a special far-ultraviolet camera by Apollo 16 on April 21, 1972 from the surface of the Moon. (The second photo on the right has some stars labeled.) Some of these photos show the Earth with stars from the Capricornus and Aquarius constellations in the background. The joint Belgian/British/Dutch satellite TD-1 later scanned the sky for stars that are bright in UV light. The TD-1 data obtained with the shortest passband is a close match for the Apollo 16 photographs.[18]
 
Quote

SELENE photographs

In 2008, the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA) SELENE lunar probe obtained several photographs showing evidence of Moon landings.[19] On the left is a photo taken on the lunar surface by Apollo 15 astronauts in July or August 1971. On the right is a 2008 3-D reconstruction from SELENE photographs taken from lunar orbit by the terrain camera, with a resolution of 10 meters. The distant terrain is a close match.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2010 at 10:53am
Apollo 12 astronaut Pete Conrad with the unmanned Surveyor 3, which landed on the Moon in 1967. Parts of Surveyor were brought back to Earth by Apollo 12. The camera (near Conrad's right hand) is on display at the National Air and Space Museum.

Third-party evidence for Apollo Moon landings is evidence or analysis of

 
 
Surveyor 3 camera brought back from the Moon by Apollo 12, on display at the National Air and Space Museum

Paul Maley reports several sightings of the Apollo 12 Command Module.[32]

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2010 at 10:57am

Apollo 8

Main article: Apollo 8

  • On December 21, 1968 at 18:00 UT Amateur astronomers (H.R. Hatfield, M.J. Hendrie, F. Kent, Alan Heath, and M.J. Oates) in the UK photographed a fuel dump from the jettisoned S-IVB stage.[20]
  • Pic du Midi Observatory (in the French Pyrenees); the Catalina Station of the Lunar and Planetary Laboratory (University of Arizona); Corralitos Observatory, New Mexico, then operated by Northwestern University; McDonald Observatory of the University of Texas; and Lick Observatory of the University of California all filed reports of observations.[20]
  • Dr. Michael Moutsoulas at Pic du Midi reported an initial sighting around 17:10 UT on December 21 with the 1.1-meter reflector as an object (magnitude near 10, through clouds) moving eastward near the predicted location of Apollo 8. He used a 60-cm refractor to observe a cluster of objects which were obscured by the appearance of a nebulous cloud at a time which matches a firing of the service module engine to assure adequate separation from the S-IVB. This event can be traced with the Apollo 8 Flight Journal, noting that launch was at 0751 EST or 12:51 UT on December 21.[20]
  • Justus Dunlap and other at Corralitos Observatory (then operated by Northwestern University) obtained over 400 short-exposure intensified images, giving very accurate locations for the spacecraft.[20]
  • The 2.1 m Struve telescope at McDonald, from 01:50-2:37 UT observed the brightest object flashing as bright as magnitude 15, with the flash pattern recurring about once a minute.[20]
  • The Lick observations during the return coast to Earth produced live TV pictures broadcast to West Coast viewers via KQED-TV in San Francisco.
  • An article in the March 1969 issue of Sky & Telescope.[20]
  • The first post-launch sightings were from the Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory (SAO) station on Maui, and observed the TLI burn near 15:44 UT on December 21.
  • Table Mountain, a Deep Space Network station, reports that they tracked all the Apollo lunar missions except 17.
  • Bernard Scrivener (at Honeysuckle Creek) personally recorded forty-five to fifty hours of the radio conversation between Houston and Apollo 8. These are recordings of the raw audio, not what was released to the public through NASA.[23]

[edit] Apollo 10

Main article: Apollo 10

  • A list of sightings of Apollo 10 were reported in "Apollo 10 Optical Tracking", Sky & Telescope, July 1969, pp. 62–63.

[edit] Apollo 11

Main article: Apollo 11

  • The Bochum Observatory director (Professor Heinz Kaminski) was able to provide confirmation of events and data independent of both the Russian and U.S. space agencies.[24]
  • A compilation of sightings appeared in "Observations of Apollo 11", Sky and Telescope, November 1969, pp. 358–359.
  • The Madrid Apollo Station, part of the Deep Space Network, built in Fresnedillas, near Madrid, Spain tracked Apollo 11.[25]
  • Goldstone Tracking Station in California tracked Apollo 11.[26]
  • At Jodrell Bank Observatory in the UK the telescope was used to observe the mission, as it had been many years previously for Sputnik.[27] At the same time, Jodrell Bank scientists were tracking the unmanned Soviet spacecraft Luna 15, which was trying to land on the Moon.[28] In July 2009 Jodrell released some recordings they made.[29]
  • Larry Baysinger, a technician for WHAS radio in Louisville, Kentucky, independently detected and recorded transmissions between Apollo 11 astronauts on the lunar surface and in the command module.[30] Recordings made by Baysinger share certain characteristics with recordings made at Bochum Observatory by Heinz Kaminski (see above), in that both Kaminski's and Baysinger's recordings do not include Capcom in Houston and the associated Quindar tones heard in NASA audio and seen on NASA Apollo 11 transcipts. Kaminski and Baysinger could only hear the transmissions from the Moon, and not transmissions to the Moon from Earth.[24][31]

[edit] Apollo 12

Main article: Apollo 12

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flightboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2010 at 11:37am
Why do people put so much faith in wikipedia now days! . and i could continue martin but we been here before and i been resisting saying all sorts to everyone this year and im gonna just stay shhhh

You believe the goverments and one source agencys ill always think on it Tongue

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2010 at 12:30pm
Originally posted by Flightboy Flightboy wrote:

i could continue martin but we been here before and i been resisting saying all sorts to everyone this year and im gonna just stay shhhh
 
No, please do continue if you still refute this, don't back away if you still believe it was a hoax, especially so after all the work Martin put in above. You need to show evidence to the contrary, evidence that proves the moon landings were a fake otherwise you're a nut, plain and simple.
 
For example, how did they get the three astronauts back into the return capsule ready to be picked up at sea? Vulcan ascertains that only a small handful of people 'know the truth' - I listed groups that would be well aware of any hoax earlier, groups of people that would take the count considerably above a small handful. I was looking at only the takeoff - what about the return to Earth?
 
And, again, I want a moon hoax advocate to explain to me what Apollo 13 was all about, not from the angle of flagging audience interest but from the point of view of everything that happened on that mission.
 
I already hear the tumbleweeds from Vulcan's direction...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2010 at 12:45pm
Give it up Magic. You are trying to convert believers. Its no different than trying to convince a person of faith that there is no god. It is their belief and nothing you can do will ever change that. You could put them in a rocket, send them to the Moon and land them next to the lunar module and they will just claim that it was placed there ahead of their visit to try to fool them.

There really isn't much difference between a religious person and a serial CT theorist. They both have an unshakable belief in a hidden higher power that watches and controls peoples actions. Just in their case it's a force for evil instead of good - an Anti-Faith if you will.
Just look at the way the discussions progress:

"Why haven't the Japanese seen the landing sites" - They have - "Nope, I still believe in the conspiracy".
"It's impossible to go to the Moon because of the radiation" - No it's not - "Nope, I still believe in the conspiracy".
"The Russians couldn't track the mission" - they could - "Nope, I still believe in the

Waste of time trying to convince them - they are "believers"...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FSaddict Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2010 at 1:20pm
http://www.clavius.org/
 
3rd time i've posted this
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2010 at 1:26pm
@RAS, yep, you're right. They're too far gone...Wink
@FSaddict, thanks for the link, good site Thumbs%20Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2010 at 3:44pm
Available from multiple independent sources, not just Wiki. What do you think the multitude of individuals were tracking, figments of their imagination?
 
You believe the goverments and one source agencys ill always think on it
 
Nope! We believe in evidence, common sense and logic.
 
Rather than invented scenarios that have no basis in fact and are easily proven false. Like your ''they can't track them'' nonsense.
 
Quote There really isn't much difference between a religious person and a serial CT theorist. They both have an unshakable belief in a hidden higher power that watches and controls peoples actions. Just in their case it's a force for evil instead of good - an Anti-Faith if you will.
 
Just look at the way the discussions progress:

"Why haven't the Japanese seen the landing sites" - They have - "Nope, I still believe in the conspiracy".
"It's impossible to go to the Moon because of the radiation" - No it's not - "Nope, I still believe in the conspiracy".
"The Russians couldn't track the mission" - they could - "Nope, I still believe in the
 
I think that just about sums them up perfectly. Big%20smile And they wonder why some of us are driven to comment on their sanity.
 
Don't worry lads, Pointy and Flightboy will be back in a few months with the same stuff, like any fanatic. They need this stuff, it gives their lives meaning.
 
It's like a drug, a form of addiction. The same mind-set that draws people to cults. Wink
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FSaddict Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2010 at 5:29pm
Taken from clavius's "Why a conspiracy" page
 
Quote

The prevalence of conspiracy theories is astounding. Almost every historical event or observable phenomenon seems to have at least one conspiracy theory associated with it. Authors have proposed several reasons why human beings are so drawn to conspiracy theories.

To account for variations in observation. Anyone who studies history seriously knows that there is rarely a completely reliable, authoritative version of the facts surrounding any notable occurrence. The tidbits of inconsistency upon which most conspiracy theories rely occur constantly in connection with any activity we undertake. It's only when important activities are closely scrutinized that these details receive close attention. In other words, it's natural for people to believe that there should be no inconsistency in legitimate activities. So if we observe an inconsistency, we take that alone as evidence that the intuitive explanation must be flawed and we should search for a more complicated answer.

As entertainment. Real life is boring. We constantly seek to embellish it, whether formally through media such as motion pictures or fictional literature, or informally through the exaggeration of our personal experiences. It's more exciting to believe that strange lights in the sky are visiting aliens and not an airliner's landing lights. As astounding as the moon landings were, it's even more astounding to suppose that the entire thing was falsified.

To seem intelligent. Conspiracy theories are often much more elaborate than what's commonly believed about something. And they usually require the listener to expand his understanding to accept the possibility of a conspiracy. Those who casually examine photographs of the lunar landings are impressed when they are led to discover discrepancies. This inflates the ego and gives one the impression that he is smarter than the dozens who look at the same photographs and see nothing special.

To be "on the inside." The conspiracist fancies himself to be elite, to be privy to secret information that few others have.

To express distrust for authority. Americans especially take delight in distrusting authority, particularly governments.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flightboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2010 at 7:03pm
Not that i have to prove anything to the bandwagon Tongue

""the Soviets did not have the capability to track deep spacecraft until late in 1972"
Track yes but not the apollo mission to the moon

In 2009, a poll conducted by the British Engineering & Technology magazine found that 25% of Britons do not believe that humans have walked on the Moon. Similarly, 25% of Americans between the age of 18 and 25 are not sure the landings happened

Alot of "nuts" like i said i would rather people that question than just follow blindly

As RAS said earlier its like me trying to make you beleive in god . some things just arnt worth the effort. Go and see your "moon rock" which has no accountability

Flightboy


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2010 at 9:18am
""the Soviets did not have the capability to track deep spacecraft until late in 1972"
Track yes but not the apollo mission to the moon
 
I think you're like Pointy, ignore anything posted that counters your argument.
 
See below: Now huge and multicolored.
 
Not to mention the plethora of amateur and professional astronomers that witnessed the events. All posted above, which you ignore. 
 
It wouldn't even have been necessary to track Apollo all the way to the moon. Part of the way would have been enough. Simply because travel to the moon relies on inertia, by the time they leave the earths orbit, they have to be traveling at sufficient velocity, if not, they would never return. So once on their way, at sufficient velocity, they have to travel to the moon to be able to return to Earth.
 
Quote The Soviet Union monitored the missions at the Space Transmissions Corps, which was "fully equipped with the latest intelligence-gathering and surveillance equipment".[
 
Quote
The missions were tracked by radar from several countries on the way to the Moon and back.[12]
In Australia, Honeysuckle Creek Tracking Station monitored transmissions from Apollo missions, from:
Tidbinbilla radio telescope made observations.
Carnavon received radio transmissions
Deaking Switching Station was the switching station for the Apollo television broadcasts.
 
Quote
Apollo 11
The Bochum Observatory director (Professor Heinz Kaminski) was able to provide confirmation of events and data independent of both the Russian and US space agencies. [5]

A compilation of sightings appeared in "Observations of Apollo 11", Sky and Telescope, November 1969, pp. 358-359.
The Madrid Apollo Station, part of the Deep Space Network, built in Fresnedillas, near Madrid, Spain tracked Apollo 11. [6]
Goldstone Tracking Station in California tracked Apollo 11. [7]
At Jodrell Bank Observatory in the UK the telescope was used to observe the mission, as it had been many years previously for Sputnik.[14]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2010 at 9:40am
In 2009, a poll conducted by the British Engineering & Technology magazine found that 25% of Britons do not believe that humans have walked on the Moon. Similarly, 25% of Americans between the age of 18 and 25 are not sure the landings happened
 
Doesn't surprise me in the least, the average level of intelligence in the general population is low. Doesn't surprise me because they don't have the capability to reason logically and have no grasp of basic scientific principles. A vast number of individuals are also highly gullible, believing anything without proof.
 
As RAS said earlier its like me trying to make you beleive in god
 
Exactly! There is no evidence for the existence of god at all, it depnds on faith, blind faith with no proof to back it up... precisely why you belief the moon landings were faked. You believe with no basis for that believe, no way to proof it, no proof whatsoever. If you wish to spend your life beliveing in concepts with zero evidence so be it.
 
Quote I've entertained a number of proposals for how to fabricate false lunar material. So far nobody has come up with a process that has a prayer of fooling the eminent, life-long geologists who work with lunar rocks. They either fail to produce the features geologist say characterize lunar material, or they leave behind by-products that would tip off geologists.

The fact remains that many eminent geologists, some from countries that have no vested interest in protecting America's secrets, have examined the material NASA says came from the moon, and without exception they all agree that it is not terrestrial in origin.

To those who say lunar material can be "easily mocked up in a lab," I say put your money where your mouth is. Do it, or at least describe a credible process for doing it.

There are plenty of non-NASA non-Americans who can testify to having intercepted Apollo radio traffic from the moon. NASA even published its radio frequencies ahead of time so that other countries could listen in.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2010 at 12:19pm
Pointy seems quiet...? Or has he forgotten all about this again until the next time...Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VulcanB2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2010 at 5:39pm
I'm here. Busy.

Vulcan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VulcanB2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2010 at 5:40pm
Originally posted by RAS RAS wrote:

I would say it goes from left-to-right by my eyes, but I'm not sure how that is relevant?

No comment on the Japanese picking up artefacts from the landing after all?

I'd agree. It wasn't clear.

Vulcan.
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