Brit to be Executed in China

MartinW wrote: If he was mentally ill Tom?

I think the Chinese may have taken it more seriously if he'd ever been professionally diagnosed. However, as we're seeing from Iran now and in the past months, have seen in Iraq and Afghanistan (with new "friendly pro-Western governments!) and China, they really don't like us meddling in their internal affairs.

Sadly it appears that rather then get medical help, he and his family did their separate things, with him going off to form his airline in Poland, and record his "world changing" music single. From what's appeared in the media, the only western professional to have "diagnosed" him did so in a recent paper, and I'm not sure if he ever met his subject. To the hard line and unsympathetic Chinese judiciary, these all appeared a little too late.

It's more touchy-feely liberal clap-trap. No one's ever to be held responsible for their own actions.  Anything, everything except personal choice is a valid cause for someone's anti-social behaviors - there's always an extenuating circumstance to exempt someone from personal accountability.  The thought of personal responsibility for ill behavior is abhorrent to the left-leaning bunch and they attempt to blame society, government, the phases of the moon or other influences when someone does something harmful or potentially harmful. 

Choices have consequences.  The guy made some bad choices and the result of those choices had a bad outcome for him.  If someone duped him, he's not the first - the world is full of people who will dupe you into doing stupid things.  If I send my bank account infromation to a guy in Nigeria who wrote me (and a few hundred thousand others) a broken-English e-mail, he'll deposit vast sums of money in my account. One must be wary and skeptical to avoid being taken advantage of.
Someone likely made him an offer that was too good to be true and he should have been less eager to assent to it. If you travel to China, North Korea, Iran, Saudi Arabia or any one of a few dozen other places in the world that have draconian laws and legal systems, it's best to be squeaky clean and extremely careful.  Many countries don't have tens of thousands of lawyers whose specialty is seeing that guilty people are not convicted.

It defies belief that this guy thought that he was engaged in a legal, harmless, perfectly OK thing to do.  He was a drug-runner, for Pete's sake, and nine pounds of heroin is not a trivial thing.  If he did think that was OK, he was too stupid or too impaired to be allowed to run loose. It's not right to have people who cannot be held responsible for their actions roaming around free and able to act as they wish. It's the ultimate get-out-of-jail-free card, a blank check to do ill to others without retribution.  No society can afford much of that.

You can argue all day about the wisdom of the Chinese laws and the actions of the Chinese government, but it's their country and people who travel there are subject to their laws.  I wish they'd been more lenient, questioning, accomodating, slow to act, but they weren't and I expect that what they did was perfectly legal under their laws, even though very severe.  The Chinese, I'm sure, see this as a deterrent.  They have a very low tolerance for importing drugs into their country and they make no secret of it.  It's hard to fault the basic rationale - it's just how they choose to enforce it that's perhaps off the deep end. 

Yes, it's harsh and extreme, but severe penalties, stricltly and swiftly imposed DO have a deterrent effect and I'm pretty sure it's that which drove them in this case. They see this as protecting their people from an evil and it's hard to argue with that.

If the guy was sufficiently impaired to not be capable of being responsible for his own actions, he shouldn't have been free and able to travel, presumably with a passport and a visa. If he was not so impaired, oh well. Choices have consequences.  He made some bad choices and suffered some bad consequences.

 

...I think we should have brought the fella back to the UK

737Chris wrote: . . . .strong words John, good argument but I think we should have brought the fella back to the UK

It's more touchy-feely liberal clap-trap. No one's ever to be held responsible for their own actions.  Anything, everything except personal choice is a valid cause for someone's anti-social behaviors - there's always an extenuating circumstance to exempt someone from personal accountability. 

 

John that fills me with dismay. As an OCD sufferer I can tell you with utmost certainty that mental illness results in bizarre behavior. Behavior you have no control over. Couple that with the Chinese not even bothering to carry out any kind of mental health assessment and you have an abhorrent occurrence.

 

This man harmed no one, if you are intent on executing perpetrators, taking a human life, then you better make damn sure it's necessary, you better make damn sure it's for crimes that ''directly'' harm others. Anything else is absolutely obscene in a civilized society.

 

Choices have consequences.  The guy made some bad choices and the result of those choices had a bad outcome for him.

 

This man may have been mentally ill; therefore I am shocked and appalled by your attitude. 

 

 If the guy was sufficiently impaired to not be capable of being responsible for his own actions, he shouldn't have been free and able to travel,

 

How naive. So, because society failed to prevent a bipolar suffer traveling it's okay to kill him?

 

There are numerous individuals in society that travel freely with mental difficulties, we aren’t talking about a crazy individual that runs around with a meat clever, we are talking about an individual with mental difficulties that was conned. For that he was executed.

 

I hope that you never suffer mental difficulties in your life, but if ever you do, then you will perhaps appreciate how a confused mind can be led astray. So what do we do, lock up all those in society that have mental disorders that could render them susceptible influence? How ridiculous!

 

Some of the attitudes on this forum based on a total lack of rational thought appal me.

737Chris wrote: good argument but I think we should have brought the fella back to the UK

Quite how were we to do that?

MartinW wrote: I think the Chinese may have taken it more seriously if he'd ever been professionally diagnosed.   True Hotty, but as an OCD sufferer, I went for decades without any medical diagnosis. Lack of a diagnosis means nothing, precisely why they should have conducted their own medical assessment like any civilised country would.   I find it telling that China has said it recieved no paperwork or evidence from anyone to say he was mentally ill, if he was then why didnt reprieve provide it   Yes they did Flighty. The authorities sent them evidence throughout the process, over two years, evidence of his bizarre behaviour, the Chinese ignored it. As I said above, a medical diagnosis means nothing. I myself suffered from full blown OCD without a diagnosis for many many years. They should have carried out an assessment. You don't become mentally ill after the assessment, you are mentally ill before.   having 4kg of heroin on you is more than posession Quantity is irrelevant. The fact is that his actions did not result in the death or injury of anyone.   You haven't answered the question Flightboy...   Do you believe it is right to execute a man despite the possibility of mental illness, without a medical assesment, and despite the fact that his actions did not result in harm to anyone??? Yes or no?

Bizzare behaviour dosnt mean your mentally ill martin, some people are just naturally weird acting like the people in the sales yesterday i saw just dropping things on the floor rather than putting it back on the table. China stated several times the evidence hadnt been put forward

Quantity is irrelevant. The fact is that his actions did not result in the death or injury of anyone
Please martin you know better! 4KG shows intent to supply hense why its not called posession

And on your working if i am a suicide bomber and i get on a bus today and my bomb dosnt go off correctly i then become less guilty becuase i didnt kill anyone? please....

Resisiting_Flightboy

...except that chickens are not endangered. Neither are calfs. Yes, male chicks are 'disposed' of in a not too pleasant way but none of the animals we farm for food are exotics nor endangered nor hunted then slaughtered cruelly on the spot just for the sake of a horn or a fin etc... Again, as with your post above it, not quite the same thing...

Answer the question Flightboy.