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777 Crash Captain Heathrow

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Slopey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slopey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2009 at 3:50pm
Only from the one operator - Korean Air. Nobody else in the west is hiring.

If Korean Air don't want someone who's been in a crash, then that's their lookout, regardless of the outcome. I imagine there's an insurance issue for pilots who have been involved in any incident.

Quote not because there were too many pilots, but because of his accident record...


But when there are lots of pilots on the shelf, who do you go for - most likely the one with nothing on the record about an incident.

There was some discussion about whether he should have taken control of the aircraft rather than let the FO fly it - perhaps those at KA didn't like his decision.
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VulcanB2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VulcanB2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2009 at 10:28pm
If the F/O was PF it is often better to let them continue to fly as they have situational awareness, whereas if you're PNF and you suddenly take control, you have to think about what you were doing as your mind isn't immediately on the flying.

My father used to let the F/O keep flying unless it was a real SHTF moment (i.e. about to crash through F/O stupidity). Anything else and his company in general deemed it safer for the PF to retain control, whoever that might be, as their mind is already on the flying, and for the PNF to run any checklists, look at the problem, etc...

If the F/O was flying the 777, then the Captain probably deemed it better that he looked at the problem anyway (especially as it concerned an unresponsive engine). The problem wouldn't immediately scream imminent crash. First though was probably bird strike leading to engine failure. Only with a bit more looking they'd see it was still running apparently normally and not responding to thrust commands.

There is only so much a pilot can do. If the systems decide they're going to do their own thing, the pilot hasn't really got much of a choice.

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BASPEEDBIRD View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BASPEEDBIRD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2009 at 8:56am
I agree in most to some of the comments. BUT (1) As you all say it was the SFO who was PF not the CAPTAIN. (2) It was the decision of the Captain to lower the flaps to the correct angle-outside of normal procedure that made the eventual glide successful. (3) It was an icing issue of which nothing could have been done. As a consequence RR has issued new guidance until their remedy is sorted.
 
A lot of people here would have done no differently or perhaps worse. He took voluntary redundancy because of the whispering campaign from jealous colleauges within BA.
 
The Captain has proved his worth and followed company procedure. I am sure that they did not want to crash!
 
What a hero!
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2009 at 8:50am

I would agree with Hot Charlie and Martyn. There is obviously more to this than meets the eye.

 

There are thousands of pilots flying world wide, that have had 'incidents' somebody doesn't become unemployable just because 'something happened'.

 

In response to 'the airline can do what it likes'… no they can't. There are laws against such things. If he is being refused work on the grounds of an accident that wasn't his fault he has a case against them.

 

Far more likely, as Hotty said, there was an element of pilot error involved that hasn't been widely publicized. Or as Slopey said, not being employed due to the incident is rubbish and more to do with work unavailability.

 
cannot secure another position because he has a crash landning on his CV
 
Who said?
 
The pilot himself?
 
The prospective employer?
 
Who?
 
Do you have a link? Could just be sour grapes because he can't find work, nothing to do with the incident.
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BASPEEDBIRD View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BASPEEDBIRD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2009 at 9:03am
It was Korea Air that said it! Look guys it was not the fault of anyone. It was a known issue with icing on the engines that RR clearly knew about!
 
The SFO as per BA policy was pilot flying for landing. The Captain toook command of communications as per BA policy. Because of situational awareness the Captain allowed the SFO to continue. It was the Captain who adjusted the flaps to the correct angle by pure gut instinct!
 
When you know a little more about BA policy of flying then come back. Not guestimate that you think there is more to it than meets the eye.
 
Would you have done differently?
 
 
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GBL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GBL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2009 at 9:38am
At least US Airways recognise a heroe Clap.
 
 
 

US Airways: Capt. Chesley Sullenberger to fly again

US%20Airways:%20Capt.%20Chesley%20Sullenberger%20to%20fly%20again
Capt. Chesley Sullenberger / Image via inquisitr.com

Sep 29, 2009

The pilot who guided his crippled jetliner to a safe emergency landing in the Hudson River in January is set to fly again.

US Airways says Capt. Chesley Sullenberger will return to the cockpit as a management pilot and will also join the Tempe, Ariz.-based airline's safety management team.

A date for his return to flying status wasn't announced by the airline on Monday.

Sullenberger says he has missed working and looks forward to his return to the sky.

Sullenberger, nicknamed "Sully," was hailed as a hero after he and co-pilot Jeffrey Skiles managed to glide their Airbus A320 into the water after its engines were disabled by a flock of geese. The 155 people on board all survived.

Aircraft Engines are the sound of Freedom.

ART
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BASPEEDBIRD View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BASPEEDBIRD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2009 at 10:54am
Here Here! You know i always thought that BA were the best. However I have found them to be arrogant and rude.
 
No wonder Captain Burkhill quit. Any respecting airline would appoint him. He has proved his worth by averting disaster. He does not deserve a witch hunt. I tell you he only had crucial seconds to make the correct decisions-without power.
 
BA should hang their heads in shame. No wonder they are in the mess that they are in.
 
Its bad management and poor decision making by managers who think they know best. I mean how many other captains would have got it right? Not many I suspect.
 
Apologies for the rant. I am surprised that Virgin have not appointed him.
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2009 at 6:30pm

It was Korea Air that said it! Look guys it was not the fault of anyone. It was a known issue with icing on the engines that RR clearly knew about!

 

'It was Korea Air that said it!'... Do you have a link to that?

 

And did Korean air say that in regard to employment with their airline?

 

I don't know what the policy is on employment in Korea but in most parts of the world such discrimination would be illegal.

 

My point is that it may have been hearsay, not fact.

 

When you know a little more about BA policy of flying then come back. Not guestimate that you think there is more to it than meets the eye.

 

Your hero worship is entertaining, but...

 
Nobody is stating definitively that there was more to it than meets the eye, only suggesting possibilities based on your uncorroborated statement.

 

If you don’t provide evidence in terms of a link, then we have no choice but to speculate.

 

Before you make a claim like he wasn't employable due to the incident you need to provide evidence. Then we can determine if it was hearsay or fact.

 

Then perhaps we’ll make you happy and not ‘guestimate’ as you put it.

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BASPEEDBIRD View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BASPEEDBIRD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2009 at 10:02am
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2009 at 11:10am

Thanks, now we can comment without speculation.

 

However, he was turned down because the airline requires that applicants do not have an "accident or incident" on their CV.

 

In which case the comment I made above regarding the employment laws in Korea apply. 

 

If Korean airlines have this policy then it applies to all applicants, all pilots. They are not discrimination against this individual pilot, Korean airlines are discriminating against 'all' pilots who have had accidents on their records.

 

 I would appreciate your angst more if Korean airlines had refused to employ him, but employed others with an accident record… then it would be wrong.

 

Perhaps your disapproval should be directed at the Korean airlines policy in regard to all pilots with an accident record rather than just this pilot’s case?

 

Basically he faced the same criteria for employment as all pilots applying to that airline, whether it is right or wrong in a moral or legal sense for the company to do that is another matter.

 
Sorry to be harsh but I would say 'so what' if they wouldn't employ him. All pilots face that scenario with Korean airlines. There are plenty of other pilots out there that are subject to the same criteria. The media however are using this to make a story out of nothing.
 

What the media are doing is saying ‘guy’s look at this super hero pilot isn’t he wonderful’ and then ‘my god, look what this horrible airline have done to our hero’

 

When in reality they are treating him the same way they treat all pilots applying to their airline.

 
 
 
 
 
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roachy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roachy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2009 at 6:35pm
Originally posted by Slopey Slopey wrote:

Maybe everyone's missing the point a little here - there are currently thousands of unemployed pilots across the globe, and a fair chunk in Europe with the demise of 2 airlines very recently.

There are NO jobs anywhere, and high hour captains are under consultation for redundancy.

So he can't find a job? Well, neither can virtually all the other pilots out of work at the moment.

No surprise there....
 
100% correct there... I was gonna post something like that myself until I saw that you'd done it already .
Besides, if an airline doesn't hire him, I'm sure its not because he's "got a crash landing on his CV".
Also, which blithering idiot would think to put "I crash-landed a plane" on his CV anyway? Shocked
Luke Roach
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BASPEEDBIRD View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BASPEEDBIRD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2009 at 9:42am

Roachy,

Would like to see you do differently! Rule (1) Never lie on your CV!
 
Have a nice day.
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Slopey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slopey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2009 at 11:03pm
Quote Never lie on your CV!


An omission is not a lie, and anyway for anything you'd probably want to lie about (i.e. a criminal record) you're not usually obliged to provide that information unless specifically asked.
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